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Original poster

volunteer at mother and toddler group - legal liability

25 replies

morsie · 03/10/2006 18:56

hello...hope someone may be able to help me. I have been asked if I will help out at a local mother and toddler group run in the village hall. Mums ( or dads) stay with the children at all times so we are in no way a child care facility but I was wondering what sort of personal liability I would hold - for example if a child hurt themselves by pulling a cup of coffee onto them etc? At present there is no 'rules' anyone is asked to sign and no clear guidance given to volunteers either. I know that the hall has public liability insurance but wondered what additional steps I should take to protect myself. Hope you can help and sorry for the ramble!

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beckybrastraps · 03/10/2006 18:59

Blimey. That never occurred to me. We are insured through the Pre-school Learning Alliance, but I have no idea whether that would be covered.

FillyjonkthePumpkinEater · 03/10/2006 19:02

think you would be personally liable if you were deemed negligent

the parents might also be liable

have not done law for abour 6 yrs though so may be talking through my ar$e.

Original poster
morsie · 03/10/2006 19:09

hmmm. it just seems to me that the current volunteers haven't even though about this. I guess it would make sense to take steps to assess the hazards ( coffee / proximity to road etc etc) and take measures to lessen but am worried that the council who own the hall provide no guidance on this. I would be running the session with a friend and at the minute the current volunteers think we are a bit paranoid for worrying about it but I would rather be safe than sorry ( or ££££££ out of pocket)

OP posts:
beckybrastraps · 03/10/2006 19:11

Get in touch with the PSLA. They'll know.

lulunaticmama · 03/10/2006 19:11

i help with an NCT group ( don't need to have the NCT thread rerunning on here though! ) i had to join them to help run, so that we were insured through them if anything happened. if it is not under the umbrella of a group - surely that is what public libaility insurance is for.

Filly - 10 years since i did law, so i might also be talking out of my arse but-

would come down to is something forseeable and who has been negligent.

eg

if a parent spills hot coffee on their kid, not your fault - they would know coffee was hot and to take care when near their child
if you spilt it - were you negligent - were you doing something foolish where it would be forseeable you would injure a child....

and so on....

would a parent really sue another parent in such circs if genuine accident???!!

beckybrastraps · 03/10/2006 19:12

these people

lulunaticmama · 03/10/2006 19:12

god, hope a real lawyer turns up soon! bet i am talking out of my arse!

FillyjonkthePumpkinEater · 03/10/2006 19:15

ah yes

the three tests of liability

negligence

forseability

and

something else to do with reasonable people

or maybe its two tests

Pollybloodyanna · 03/10/2006 19:15

I'm really rusty about this, but my understanding is that you can't really protect yourself. I think that even if you were just walking through the playgroup and tipped coffee over a child you would in theory be liable.

In real life though, unless you were being very negligent and stupid you should be ok. The main liability would be for the people who run the group and the hall owners. The children could (I suppose???) also be partially to blame for any accidents (actually I don't know about that - i haven't been a lawyer for some time!!).

I know my household insurance has a section for legal costs if I do get sued - perhaps you should check this.

FillyjonkthePumpkinEater · 03/10/2006 19:16

I know it has something to do with a blind man walking down a street and falling into a hole

and i seem to recall some sort of factory as well

god, it has left so little impression on me, its scary

Original poster
morsie · 03/10/2006 19:18

beckybrastraps - thank you! will check out that website now.

filly and lulu - thanks for advice... i think the while negligence bit is the key bit. worrying thing is I can absolutly see circumstances in which one parent may try to sue another cos thats the twisted world we live in. people just don't accept accidents anymore. there always needs to be someone to blame!

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lulunaticmama · 03/10/2006 19:20

do you remember the man on the clapham omnibus as a test for something ? forseeable? reasonable??

FillyjonkthePumpkinEater · 03/10/2006 19:20

honestly, morsie...unless you are doing something hopelessly stupid and negligent, like encourgaing 2 year olds to pour coffee, I wouldn't worry.

If they went after anyone it'd be the nursery

why?

cos they've got insurance

there's no point suing you if you have no money

Pollybloodyanna · 03/10/2006 19:20

I remember that factory case - can't remember what it's called though

lulunaticmama · 03/10/2006 19:21

i know - make all kids sit on carpet, not move, no toys, serve cold water and no food ( in case of allergic reactions...!) wait for a couple of hours, send everyone home! see ! no danger there!

FillyjonkthePumpkinEater · 03/10/2006 19:22

hmmm

vaguely

thought it was the floodgates test, actually, but now I think on it that doesn't really stand up that well

hmmm

Original poster
morsie · 03/10/2006 19:23

..there is no nursery though. There is the hall which I then open, people and babies arrive, play with toys, drink coffee, sing a song and then go home again. Its the overall lack of anybody being 'in charge' in a sort of offical manner other than me! maybe I am just being paranoid.... will have a good look at the PSLA site and then get back to wrapping myself in cotton wool!

OP posts:
Pollybloodyanna · 03/10/2006 19:24

Is it affiliated to the PLA? If so, you can phone up their legal section - they will advise you about liability etc.

lulunaticmama · 03/10/2006 19:24

floodgates - was not allowing certain cases to be won as would open floodgate to many more claims that would overload the system etc???

FillyjonkthePumpkinEater · 03/10/2006 19:24

it has come to me

duty of care
breach of above
loss

that is it

hmm

mosie owes doc, would have breached it ...but would there be a loss ? Not really, unless the kid was badly injured. AFAIR it is not enough just to be negligent, you have to cause a loss. I remember endless convuluted scenarios, sometimes acted out with props, to this effect.

FillyjonkthePumpkinEater · 03/10/2006 19:27

thats it.

so some criminal cases would be decided in a completely illogical and unfair way, a la Denning (ooh don't get me started on Denning and Social Security and how, apparently, all IS claimaints have wives-even the women... because otherwise there would be millions and millions of claims

I think I happened to be taught this in the course of criminal law. don't see why it wouldn't apply anywhere.

Pollybloodyanna · 03/10/2006 19:28

and there is also the question of contributory negligence. If I went to a group and a parent tipped coffee over me or my child I would think that that parent is the main cause of the accident. And probably me for allowing my child to career around with hot coffee around.

Original poster
morsie · 03/10/2006 19:31

i see ( i think!) so general consensus is...don't leave cups of coffee on floor, shut door onto the road, make people aware I recognise those dangers and have taken steps to mitigate and then should really be OK....think even I should be able to do that...really appreciate youe help x

OP posts:
lulunaticmama · 03/10/2006 19:32

reckon so! and don't forget to have good (safe!) fun !

Original poster
morsie · 03/10/2006 19:43

ah yes... the fun bit! Actually it is good fun - paint everywhere monday and much rather that was on the floor in the village hall than my sitting room carpet

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