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Original poster

Unmarried couples and the law?

25 replies

Quootiepie · 24/09/2006 09:09

Hiya...
My MIL and FIL were not married, and FIL died recently. We are in the middle of sorting things out and are unsure of where we stand. FIL bought the house, and MIL moved in after. About 15 years later her name was added to the deeds. The mortgage is payed off, and are unsure of whether MIL owns the whole house, 1/2 the house, or none of the house... They didnt buy it together, so cant find any documents saying whether it was tenants in common, or joint tenants. Solicitors is closed, so wondered if anyone had any advice?

Thanks x

OP posts:
Original poster
Quootiepie · 24/09/2006 09:18

Bump - sorry to be a pain in the ass!

OP posts:
TheBlonde · 24/09/2006 09:24

I think it should say in the deeds

Twiglett · 24/09/2006 09:24

I think it depends on how it was phrased .. you're right ... you need the will and the documentation from the solicitor

how very frustrating for you

iota · 24/09/2006 09:25

did FIL leave a will?

Original poster
Quootiepie · 24/09/2006 09:28

no will. The deeds are abit shady - she appears just to have her name on them? Will it say there?

OP posts:
Freckle · 24/09/2006 09:29

You will need to find what is registered at the Land Registry - assuming it is registered land. If they were named as joint tenants, the whole house passes to her regardless of what is said in his will. If they are registered as tenants in common, there should also be a trust deed setting out their respective shares. If no such deed exists, the presumption is that they owned the house 50/50. She will be entitled to her share, but his share will form part of his estate and will be dealt with in accordance with the wishes therein.

If he did not leave a will, then the whole of his estate (which will not include her 50% share of the house) will go to any surviving children.

Original poster
Quootiepie · 24/09/2006 09:30

does anyone know the limit for tax free wedding gifts while im on the subject?

OP posts:
Original poster
Quootiepie · 24/09/2006 09:31

Freckle - the problem now is that HE bought the house, gave 100% of the money in the deposit. (not 100% of the house value though!) If she was added, and they didnt buy together, is it classed as if the bought together?

Legal minefield!!

OP posts:
Freckle · 24/09/2006 09:44

What does it actually say on the deeds? The original purchase of the property is irrelevant, unless this is accounted for in a trust deed (which would be needed if they are registered as tenants in common). Is there likely to be a dispute over ownership of the house?

Freckle · 24/09/2006 09:46

Also, when did he buy the house? How long after did he add her name to the deeds? What does MIL say about their intentions when her name was added?

Can she remember which solicitors dealt with the transaction? They may have correspondence from then which will help show intention.

Judy1234 · 24/09/2006 12:35

If they are tenants in common with 50% shares she gets 50%. If he was supporting her then even if they weren't married she might be able to make an extra claim for money from the estate. His half will go to his children/parents/siblings or something otherwise. If she had say a 10% share then her estate gets that. I am not sure if the registration of the house shows if they are joint tenants (in which case she gets all of the house) or tenants in common - you can do on line searches for fees at the land registry web site.
My late mother's half share of the house is held by my siblings and me. I just checked and it does not say what proportions my siblings and my fdather and I hold. That's set out in a separate document between us so presumably the same in your case too so doing the search may not help.

If there were no documents at all and she was added to the title deeds then I think the presumption is that they own as joint tenants unless his family can prove otherwise so the MIL should get all the house - although it may need to be sold to pay inheritance tax I suppose.

Original poster
Quootiepie · 24/09/2006 22:21

Ive rooted through - what do th Deeds look like? I have a few things, but am unclear what they all are. Ive found a document saying the house has had a transfer of equity to joint names - thats it.

OP posts:
Original poster
Quootiepie · 24/09/2006 22:23

house bought 1981, MIL added 1995. phoned solicitors days after FIL died and they said "oh, you dont need to do probate" and off we toddled for a month! Thing is, people keep putting "Mrs" on the documents, and assuming, because MIL changed her name by deedpoll... its getting very confusing!

OP posts:
Original poster
Quootiepie · 24/09/2006 22:27

help?

OP posts:
Original poster
Quootiepie · 24/09/2006 22:38

sorry - gonna bump abit incase anyone missed it

OP posts:
Original poster
Quootiepie · 24/09/2006 22:58

once more...

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iota · 25/09/2006 09:32

Well I'm not a solicitor, but I would assume that if you have a document showing "transfer of equity into joint names", then what Freckle said applies: " If they were named as joint tenants, the whole house passes to her regardless of what is said in his will"

Anyway it's Monday now, so you can contact the solicitor

Original poster
Quootiepie · 25/09/2006 10:32

yeah - phoned Land Registry and they were joint tennants. Still a nightmare as he gifted hr 1/2 the property!

OP posts:
Freckle · 25/09/2006 10:34

Why is that a nightmare? If he gifted it over 7 years ago, there are no inheritance tax implications. As things stand, she owns the whole house free of any taxes.

CarolinaMoon · 25/09/2006 10:35

how's it a nightmare?

If they are joint tenants (not tenants in common), she will automatically own the house on his death - it doesn't pass under a will.

Original poster
Quootiepie · 25/09/2006 10:36

yeah, but he gifted he 1/2 the house... and gifts are subject to tax...

OP posts:
Original poster
Quootiepie · 25/09/2006 10:36

*her

OP posts:
Freckle · 25/09/2006 10:40

Gifts are only subject to tax if given within 7 years of the donor's death. You said he gifted it in about 1995, which is well over 7 years ago.

Original poster
Quootiepie · 25/09/2006 15:30

theres a form which asks for all gifts past 18th March 1986... I think ive got the jist now...

OP posts:
Judy1234 · 25/09/2006 19:22

No inheritance tax as more than 7 years ago.
Blind leading the blind here but how does capital gains tax apply? I know we are taking some capital gains tax risk on my father's house in return for avoiding some inheritance tax and it's quite complex. Gifts between husband and wife are tax free for inheritance tax but they were not married.

So MIL owns the house immediately. It is possible FIL's estate however has to pay inheritance tax - has he left any other money, had life insurance pay outs etc?

On CGT I saw on HMRC site

"What if I make a gift to another member of my family, or to a friend?

If you give an asset to a friend or to a member of your family other than your husband or wife you are normally treated as making a disposal. So you may be liable to pay CGT. That is also the case if you sell him or her an asset for less than its value.

Example 1

You buy a home for the use of your son or daughter when he or she is a student or starting work. After some years, you decide to give the home to your child. At that point you have made a disposal.

You may have to pay CGT on the gain in value since you first bought the house.

Special rules apply to determine the value of the disposal ? see When am I treated as receiving disposal proceeds equal to the market value of an asset?

Gifts of some assets do not lead to an immediate CGT charge, see Help Sheet IR295: Relief for gifts and similar transactions"

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