I'm repaying a debt to my ex but she won't give me the document we recorded it on.

[possiblyprecious]

About three years ago, I borrowed money from my ex, just after we split up. It was borrowed in a few separate amounts, and part of it is for her car being transferred to me when she upgraded. The total amount is around thirteen thousand dollars. We wrote the amounts down on a piece of paper with a general agreemenintot that I would repay it when possible. She kept the paper and I didn't keep a copy. I've been repaying it in varying amounts but for the most part fifty dollars a fortnight. I've paid off four thousand dollars.

However, for the last few months I've been asking her for a copy of the document so that I can clarify exactly how much I still owe.

She keeps fobbing me off. I'm getting irritated because I can't remember all the details, and even though I'm sure I have quite a few thousand dollars left to go, I'd like to know for sure, and to clarify that we're on the same page. The records that I've kept show that I've paid from three different bank accounts in to two of her accounts , and some of the debt has been reduced in lieu of cash when I did occasional work for her - so lots of potential for misunderstandings. Our relationship has deteriorated a lot to only minimal communication about child custody issues.

I feel like I want to stop repayments until I have a copy of the original agreement. Is this a reasonable thing to want? What else can I do to get some control over this situation?

It snot reasonable to stop paying when you know that you have circa 9 thousand dollars outstanding to her!

Maybe she has lost the original agreement and doesn't want to admit it for fear of you shirking your responsibility to repay the debt?

Maybe, as the relationship has broken down further, she is just being awkward.

Either way, you still owe her a substantial sum of money, and you know it.

Start to only pay via methods which can be tracked, and commit to an absolute minimum repayment.

*It's not!

I have every intention of paying the debt, that's not the issue, but my guesstimate of the minimum amount left could be out by hundreds or more. I'd like to have an idea of how much longer it will take to repay. If she has lost the document we will have to work out from memory/our own records what is still owed. At the moment I feel like there is no end in sight. And if there are discrepancies in our records/beliefs about what is still owed, I'd like to sort it out sooner rather than later. She keeps saying she's too busy, but I've been asking for three months.

Can you not track it back and work it out using your bank statements (and dates / amounts) of work done in lieu? And then carry on tracking as you make further repayments? That way, if your ex does contest anything further down the line you can be confident that you've kept meticulous records bar a possible discrepancy on the first few thousand.
I honestly can't see this document emerging anytime soon, if at all, so keeping track at your end is imperative - speaks the bitter (yet ultimately triumphant) voice of experience.

I have done a quick calculation for you. If you are going to continue to pay off this, not insubstantial, debt at a rate of $50 a fortnight, then you are going to be paying for over 6 years still - this doesn't allow any deductions for work you have done for her though.
I suspect that if your relationship has broken down to the extent you say, then your exs reluctance to give you the original document is possibly because she doesn't see it being paid off any time soon.

I'd like to pay it off sooner, and should be able to increase payments before too long as well. But I would like to know what the actual debt is. I know it was stupid of me to not keep a copy my own records. There was a more trusting relationship between us at the timethe money was loaned. I wrote the first entry in an old exercise book at her house -maybe three thousand?? I really can't remember.... Then I think later down the track I might have asked her to record extra amounts or repayments...... Basically I have no idea what has been recorded there. And very poor memory of the details. When should iI stop if it's never clarified?

I failed to make a few payments at the end of last year (new baby born, stopped work, parental leave not paid till Jan this year), and she said she would get her solicitor involved - in a way I would like that to happen, as surely she would have to produce records and we could work out exactly where we stand? Am just feeling frustrated. Custody stuff is now pretty much worked out and I would like to get some order into this issue.

I'm not surprised your relationship has deteriorated if you started missing payments. Having a baby is neither here nor there - you shouldn't have planned another baby if you couldn't afford it. Your baby isn't her problem

I suspect she's lost the exercise book, hence unwillingness to show it.

If I were you, I would have a solicitor write her a letter (so you can prove it) setting out what you think you borrowed, have repaid, and still owe. Also how you intend to repay it (e.g. £x per week minimum, increasing if possible). And state that unless you hear otherwise within 2 weeks, you deem her to have accepted your calculations.
A solicitor would be needed to tell you if that would trump any previous paperwork - but I'm guessing it would be quite a strong indicator if she later took you to court.

That's a good idea about me writing her a solicitor's letter, if I get no joy any other way. I'd probably wait until I had paid more off.

Actually I think I've done well to repay what I have. I have been paying the majority of my daughter's costs since we separated, including all childcare and school fees up until this year, so no I don't believe I'm in the wrong here. And the relationship deteriorated due to ongoing bullying, verbal aggression, and finally physical aggression towards me. Not that I thought that was relevant to my actual question.

And while I'm on it, she has paid a total of $130 child support in three and a half years. So my money has been going to support our child (and my new partner contributes more to her upkeep than my ex).

And I can afford afford a new baby, as I have a new partner (baby's dad), and the reason I missed those few payments was because there was a gap in my income between me stopping work and paid parental leave payments starting.

I hope that curbs some of the judgemental comments which are irrelevant to my original post question.

You have residency of your child with your ex who you borrowed the money from and she refuses to contribute to the child's financial upkeep by way of maintenance- is that correct?

I appreciate you are morally obliged to repay the money you borrow but she is morally (and legally obliged to contribute towards her own child!

This is an informal loan of money. No official documents at all I assume? I'm not legally trained but I very much doubt there is any way of enforcing repayment of lent money like this. Even if she could prove she gave you the money how could she prove it was a loan and not a gift?

If she refuses to provide you with the documents I would work out how much you believe you owe her still to the best of your knowledge. I would then use the CSA online calculator and see how much she owes you for not contributing towards her child for 3.5 years and do the sums to see the amount outstanding to her. The rest can be paid back monthly but ensure you deduct the CSA minimum payments for your child from the repayments to her.

The treat yourself and your child to something nice :)

I get the feeling you're not in the UK op? Wherever you are, do they have any sort of CSA? Your circumstances (ex is f, current dp is m?) are a little confusing but I'm assuming you're a female? It's by the by but the posters who've jumped straight in with a good dose of misguided 'man-bashing' have made me laugh a little bit. Good luck with getting sorted.

Oh I've only just realised that I might have been getting "man -bashed"! :)

Yes, I suppose it can be a confusing situation, I tend to forget that. I am female and live outside of UK.

Yes I have my DD 65% of nights - the term "residency"isn't used in family law here any more although I still tend to use it myself.

For a couple of years post-separation I had her 50% of nights but about 65% of time if that makes sense. Basically I was a bit (lot) of a mug. Nights away alternated through the week but I would drive there at 7am the next morning to collect her and get her ready for day care etc...... This collection routine started because ex had a domestic violence order stopping her coming to the house..... Writing it down makes it seem laughably crazy :(

The separation agreement gave me the equity in the house and ex the cash assets and her small business. I went against solicitor's advice by claiming relatively little. It wasn't wise. Prior to separation I was basically a sahm but worked quite a lot for partner's business plus my own small business almost as a "hobby".

The thing is that it took me a good year after separation to get my own business up to the level of earning a living income, so I had minimal cash coming in. I didn't get much family payment due to the fifty fifty care split. And I took all childcare costs myself (heavily subsidised here but I was still paying about $3600pa). So the main part of the money I borrowed was for basic living costs, no luxuries.

And there was a child support assessment but she declared a very very low income (still does) - it was, seriously, less than half what the child support office allocates as the self-support amount. So she wasn't required to pay anything. Even now she only is supposed to pay $33 per month.

Ironing lady, there were no official documents but some of it at least was written down in an old school-book. Yes it has been suggested to me by friends that it's not enforceable..... But I do feel morally obliged to pay, but i hope the above info explains why I've been paying it off so slowly. Her not giving me any written info about the agreement/debt amount is probably only a tiny issue but it frustrates me so much.