Erudio Student Loans Continued

[halfpricedebt]

Started a new thread following mrsbug's request.

I got an email from Erudio today telling me that an issue I raised with them on 27 March that was then completely ignored even though they asked for confirmation of my details to process the initial email. I gave them the details they requested and seven days later I still hadn't heard anything. So I wrote them a rather threatening complaint telling them if they didn't respond within 7 days I would report them to the relevant financial services. That was on 3 April and today they've told me that my complaint has been forwarded to their Customer Resolutions Team.

I wonder what they do?

@powerpooh: That is indeed the headquarters of our beloved shell company The Wilmington Trust and head residence of our even more invisible and beloved leader Mark Filer.

@becca: Great news you have directed your MPs attention towards this and got Capita or Arrow to admit it is not mandatory to have a DD in place. I said many moons ago, we need to get them to redesign the deferral form and start the whole process again. Not so much for our benefit, but to create an absolute disaster zone for Arrow, Capita, Ventura and Erudio. They need to delete all the info we sent and redesign the forms they admit will be redesigned anyway because they are 'misleading'. Anything we signed over by signing our forms would also be non-binding. By admitting the forms are misleading, i dont understand why we havent all rounded on this to demand that they destroy what we have already sent to them and start again...and to compensate us for time wasted because they have been a total fucking shambles and unfot for purpose.
Anyone else think that is a fair target?

@ichibodT You could have done us the biggest favour of all by recording like that. The ombudsman can of course request calls and/or transcripts, and they told me Capita will be in deep dooo if they dont pass them over for any reason.

How problematic would it be to post such calls on youtube or such places? We could all link to such things and evidence real Capita incompetence, especially if you have some pertinent examples of the key problems we have been outraged about and their conflicting blagging.

@ IchibodT & erudioed - you have to be v careful about what you put out into the public domain - if IchibodT got consent to recording the conversations beforehand, then it might be fair game (but Erudio could say it was a rogue employee with a grudge and you might still be up the proverbial creek). If not, you could be up for charges of slander or whatever other muck Erudio felt like throwing at you - I might be completely wrong, but might want to check first

you are probably right, but such things not being in the public domain like this are why things are the way they are. there must be away to put a voice filter on it were it to be done but i can understand why it raises other concerns.
after all, this will be the future for all students, so it is very much in the public interest.

@ erudiod Getting a bit righteous now, but if we don't put a stop to this, as the Government's little guinea pigs, they'll sell off more loans next year... I don't even want to think where that'll end up given the vast number of people affected - being Scottish, poll tax springs to mind, but on a much bigger scale... I think the Govt would be v foolish to go down that road? My oldest child is 7, I don't want him EVER being in this situation where he owes a debt to a DCA for the sake of his education

i agree minimoosh, this is way bigger than us. This is us going down the US road, the road many of the more balanced commentators know has failed out there and left the very backers chasing us, such as CarVal, chasing people who will be in debt for life in the US. They made the news a month of so back for getting a local sheriff to kick someones door down marine style and arrest them for defaulting on a student loan payment. I understand, here, in the United States of Kingdom, as they are discussing now, the interest rate will be relaxed and people like us will be paying the debt back at something like 9% of their income until they are 60....and still never pay back the debt because of the interest rate. The very company fiddling around in our lives, Arrow, obviously want to be at the head of that pie, which is why it is an imperative that we do our best to expose the reality of this now because unfortunately if your oldest does go to Uni, there is a very real chance he will dealing with such companies all their adult life. Crazy as it sounds but true. We are the front line of that fight unfortunately, and thus far, we are doing ok!!! But we need to do a lot more.

I expect most people were told, I certainly was, when taking out the loan it was safe to do so as it was a government loan and nothing like the US style loans. Even at 18 I would not have taken out the loan if it was with a private company.

I did as it happens have to make up my parents contribution with a private loan and it really impacted on my studies as I had no choice but to pay it back straight away (I wasn't aware there was no way of ensuring parents paid that contribution the government reduced grants by in those days and many students had the same problems I did in that some parents just refused to pay). When I did a masters after I took out a career development loan which I had no choice but to pay back, regardless of my income and employment status after a set time, I think it was extended by a couple of months after I left the course (note not after graduation which was two months after it finished, and I was expected to be working and doing my dissertation). I took out that bank loan knowing full well what was expected, it was a nightmare despite that as I became ill and unable to work, but the point is I knew what I was getting into. There was no smiley university person telling me not to worry I won't have to pay back unless earning x as it is a government loan no one would be chasing me, it wouldn't effect my credit rating etc and the bits about selling in the agreement were 'standard' and would never be put into practice.

Being chased for money is an awful experience, personally I'm telling everyone I know of my experience currently to make sure they know what they are getting into with so called 'safe government' loans. I sure there are people who will be put off taking out student loans now they know they can be sold.

In terms of recording, erudio so state they record all telephone calls, which I doubt to be honest, and in order to use any recordings you must have permission to record in the first place, I've had problems with this and another company in the past, any such calls will not be accepted by anyone e.g. Complaints/ombudsman unless permission was granted first and is on the recording.

@ Becca. Thanks for that, that's interesting.

I wondered about the legitimacy of recording a conversation myself and using it as evidence, but partly it is helpful for my own use, as a record of what's been said. There was one agent who was helpful to me and I don't want to be personal or land any individual in trouble, only to highlight the minefield of dealing with this organisation.

So next time I need to make a call I will say at the outset, "Do I have your permission to also record this call (which you are recording in any case) for my own records, and also if I feel I am being treated unfairly and wish to submit the recording as evidence to the FOS...?" Hmmm, what do you think the response would be...?!

I kind of thought that investigative journalists on the telly secretly record conversations and I assume they don't have permission to then televise them as they do, therefore it can't be illegal...

Don't like the idea of you-tubing it though, not at all.

I suspect from the agents' point of view, some of them have been spoken to by some customers in ways that cross the line into verbal abuse...

If its in the public interest, i think it is slightly different. It does seem rather extreme i agree but dont for one thing think such Capita staff would have much sympathy with you, it is those who are seemingly crossing the line and all we have to go on. They choose to press a certain line, or if they dont have an accurate answer, could just say would you like to lodge an official complaint. IT isnt about targeting them individually but the institution, and such voices can be put through software. But, having said that, it would be a short cut to show how many of us are being treated, especially as what we are saying is being contradicted by the much wider media reported responses of Zach Lewy. Just an idea, but not a perfect one i know.

Well here's an ar5e about face update from me.
You may recall I had an email reply telling me my loan was deferred which was sent to me one day after I had resent an email asking for an update.
I have just had a reply to my original email (22 days after I sent it) telling me I need to send my details in again so they can confirm who I am before they answer my question. This is despite me pointing out who had signed for my deferment pack in the first place.

My deferment ends tomorrow and so my 'money shot day' is the 20th. Of course, I've had no dd news from them regarding amounts and dates etc.

So, am I deferred or what? They don't know, I don't know. I've emailed them back and copied the 'successful deferment' email and told them that they clearly don't require any further information, as they have already replied to my second (resent) email.

We really aren't getting our money's worth from this lot are we?

Just ignore the email. You have written confirmation you have been deferred. What we have in writing is the only real info we have and the only thing to go by. They clearly arent coordinated in Capita and a shambles. If you have it in writing, i believe that will stand up in any court and very favourably looked on by the Ombudsman if they were to take a payment, which i doubt they will!
We have to try and stop this mess...

@emptycoffers

No. I don't want to add/retract/change anything. And to answer your earlier question I earn less than £500 a month so I am more than entitled to defer.

I thought I was pretty clear on this. At the time I applied for deferment none of us knew what would or would not lead to a successful deferment... so it is a little misleading to say that people were told what to do ages ago and if they didn't do it that's their fault. Some people were saying ignore the forms and send a letter. Some people were saying fill in the forms but black out the bits you didn't agree to. Some people were saying other things.

I decided to send a letter.

None of us knew until the last week which methods would work because up until then very few deferments had been processed. Now we have a clearer picture and it seems like filling in the forms (either blacked out or not) is the only way Erudio will defer people successfully.

And since my current deferment ends next week I now have no time to re-apply in a different manner than I did already.

And also this might be a moot point with Erudip refusing to back down but let's not forget: I shouldn't HAVE to apply again anyway as I qualify for deferment and have given them all the evidence they require and they had no reason to refuse me in the first place.

@ simonpimpernel It's not too late to send off an amended form - there's no deadline for getting your application to Erudio, but they do state under the FAQ on the website:

"It is therefore important that you return your completed form and evidence to Erudio before the end of your existing deferral period, to ensure that no payments are collected from you and that you do not fall into arrears".

This seems to contradict other info, where they say that you must continue to make repayments until deferment is granted, but I think this is aimed at borrowers who are currently paying and want to apply for deferment, not current deferrers.

Until Erudio receive the signed deferment form, they will insist that you haven't made a valid application, and can start demanding repayment. Surely the priority has to be getting deferment granted, then fight them over the changes to t&c's? If we do it the other way around, it will drag on for months (unless FCA/FOS intervenes), the 3 months for backdating the deferment will pass, and we'll have a whole new fight to get any repayments outside that period back (you could make this part of your complaint, so you get all repayments back if the ombudsman finds in your favour, but it still means paying Erudio in the meantime).

We have to take our complaints to the ombudsman whether deferment is granted before or after that process, but I don't want to give Erudio the opportunity to get their paws on my money, so I've amended and signed the form and will fight them over the t&c's if/when they grant deferment. I possibly wouldn't have done it this way if I hadn't read on the forums about what is and isn't working for others, but it makes sense to share and use that knowledge to help everyone through the deferment and complaints process.

I telephoned Erudio today, just to see if they found the deferment request which they lost, despite it being signed for on 30th April. They previously said they'd look for it last Tuesday and telephone back. I haven't heard anything since, and my deferment expires at midnight tonight.

Capita said they have now found my deferment request, but it hasn't been looked at, as they are still processing deferment requests from March. I asked about the CCA request for copies of my credit agreements contained in the same letter, but the operator didn't seem to know what I was talking about.

So much for the public/private sector efficiency dichotomy. I'm going to telephone my MP's office later to update them as this is quite beyond the pale. They don't have my bank details, but I am going to be furious if they start chasing me aggressively for arrears that are not due.

I had a lovely letter today, no not deferment, this will teach me to stir up trouble, i don't work currently i claim no benefits, my o/h pays my bills, yes lucky girl, sort of.

The letter from Erudio is asking for yet another letter from o/h to confirm he supports me and a bank statement, now o/h refuses point blank to let them have access to a statement, i have a bank account with no money in just in my name, the adviser said i could send that instead and they would process the deferment.

I fail to see how my account with nothing in confirms o/h supports me, its had nothing in for several years but i did set up the dd on it so no harm in sending it as they already have the account no etc. Smacks of box ticking to me.

And

Another letter in the same post different envelope telling me they will take £0.00 on the 25th May, i will send the docs off wasting yet another £2 for recorded del! I just don't understand these people, i have better things to worry about!

I have had success with Erudio! I am a SAHM who has never earned over the threshold. Previously a letter from my husband with an approximate amount which he supports me (half the mortgage, bills etc) was sufficient with SLC. I had a letter from Erudio asking for bank statements as DH's letter was insufficient. I refuse to send that in as it is irrelevant; I do not earn money, I have no income, marriage and motherhood are not employment! They have no legal right to ask for this information. I said all this to call handler who just kept on saying they need evidence, I asked to speak to a manager who agreed to defer my loan (probably after reading the email I sent on Saturday - my deferment was expiring today and I suggested in writing that they were deliberately delaying so they could make me default). Anyway just wanted to share that it is possible to get deferment sorted!!

Oh and I sought confirmation that my details would only be shared if my loan was defaulted on, he said that was correct, they are not changing the terms and conditions I signed up to in 1998 (course started in 1997 so I have pre1998 loans).

nalcat: i was told the same about CRAs and i think you will find they are lying if you dont have written proof. Hopefully i am wrong, but i wouldnt believe any of it until you have written confirmation. I have been guaranteed, after much questioning, such things would be sent out to me, only to find weeks later my file had been amended internally and what was promised had been cancelled. Unless they have had an about turn and decided against passing our pre-1998 loans on to CRAs, i think you will find they almost certainly will be passed on. It will be a good one for the ombudsman though if you have call time evidence. Capita have remained pretty strong on the CRA line, as has Zach Lewy. I would not so much start your mail with it being a success story because if my experiences are anything to go by, you will find yourself at square on on such concessions in the coming weeks...again, hopefully i am wrong but please do inform us if you get written confirmation of the CRA issue and pre-1998 loans.

I was told by BIS that SLC could request a bank statement from you if they thought something was a little dodgy but often did not, especially initially via the deferment form. You could use the redact function on adobe for your statements and delete everything you deem sensitive, including everything but your bank account name and balance. You can redact all incoming and outgoing payments rather easily. Then print off that page. If you mail the pdf file in an email, they could re-redact your redactions i think, so maybe a print out would be better if you wish to keep your transactions private. Asking for otherhalf bank details is preposterous. Their word is good enough, which is why they have to sign their statements etc. This is another area where Capita via Arrow's rules seem to wish to apply the full letter of their powers to catch us out in some way. Maybe they just want to see the balance or make sure we havent got monthly job payments going in or see how much cash we have to assess whether we have enough money for them to try and snatch.
Of course, you dont have to have a bank account! I agree, a bank statement doesnt really prove much, and often no money is passed over at all, and if it is, it is probably in the form of £30 in hand for some food.

Do any of you folks know the routine for writing off your loans when reaching 50 years of age? Is it done automatically assuming you meet the criteria relating to defaulting, or does one have to physically apply for the write-off?

I dont know with this bunch of clowns, theyll probably want you to turn up in person to Capita HQ with your parents, and if they are no longer around, probably ask for the midwife who birthed you to turn up in person. If she fails to appear, they will probably make a citizens arrest and steal your banks cards and slowly draw the cash out every day until you have nothing left, then let you go without bus fare home!

I am 50 too in between now and the next period of deferment, i was told on the phone that they would write to me, ha ha ha! yes i know, so as far as i was told they contact you, but it would probably be worth writing to them to ask and get a reply in writing. I will win this battle first and worry about that afterwards.

@erudiod

That is exactly what the adviser said to me, that my o/h wouldn't necessarily make payments into my bank but give me cash so what the hell does a bank statement prove! It was actually a much much longer explanation than that but i won't bore you because i think i did actually switch off half way through, or did he put me on hold, i think it was both!

hmmmmm i defy them to ask my mother to turn up, even i am scared of her she is seriously fierce lol, my Dad is just stroppy like me!

@ StAndrewsbythesea I'm looking at sending Erudio a CCA request and saw this in the OFT guidance yesterday:

"Finally, while non-compliance with an information request is no longer a
criminal offence under the Consumer Credit Act,32 non-compliance with
an information request remains a 'domestic infringement' under the
Enterprise Act 2002, and enforcement proceedings could be issued
under that Act33 if considered appropriate to do so taking account of the
conduct of the creditor or owner".

It's at the top of page 29 of the guidance here:

www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf

You could try emailing Erudio, quoting the OFT guidance, when the 12 working days for compliance passed, and copy in the FCA to the email ([email protected])? If you can attach a copy of your original request and proof of delivery to the email, it's evidence for the FCA of Erudio's non-compliance.

oh @minimoosh

thats interesting i will do that, mine was due on the 15th although they have not cashed my cheque, i know they have it i have the signed for details, and i do have scanned copies of everything, will let you know how i get on.

Thanks @ erudioed and @ persephone49, both after my suspicious heart! This site doesn't seem to have a quote function, but to follow up on a post I wrote last week on this thread, a few pages back, and I quote:

"I have just had my deferment confirmation letter back from the SLC. I had applied to defer three loans, two of which (for '96/'97) had been sold to Thesis in the first offload a few years ago. As far as I am or was concerned, the third (for '98) is still with the SLC. However, there is no mention of this loan on my deferment confirmation letter, so I suspect they may have sold it to Erudio. I've had no information in the post to inform me of this. Therefore I've yet to have any dealings with Erudio.

This is the first year that SLC hasn't confirmed all three at the same time, so I am anticipating a bit of hassle coming up. But the main point being the SLC are not averse to only part processing received applications."

I have just received a letter from Erudio thanking me for my recent communication (I have had no communication with them), and informing me that my loan account is now currently deferred. This confirms to me that SLC sold them my remaining account. However, I notice the deferment period is different to the ones that were deferred last week even though all three were applied for on the same application. The cycnic in me wonders if they have done this to ensure that the end of this deferment period falls just before my 50th birthday, and therefore forces me to apply for one further deferment before write off. But I am very cynical.....