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Original poster

Underpinning - insurance, saleability etc - and experience?

32 replies

Blu · 22/08/2006 20:40

We've found the ideal house to buy, only to be told that it has been underpinned. I am seeking more details, but the estate agent says the vendors had it done 'as a precaution' 4 years ago. It is a 30s semi in London in good nick. Nicely done up and currently owned by responsible-seeming people who have lived there 14 years.

I called the co who insure us atm, and they said they won't ever insure any underpinned properties, unless they themselves have had it done.

Is this house insurablee? if it is, would we be able to sell it again? the underpinning has a 10 year guarantee, with 6 years to run.

I am going to ask the company which insures it at present if they would insure it if it belonged to a new owner - and if they would insure it once the guarantee has run out.

I think there is a specialist insurers for underpinned properties, is it very expensive?

Any views / experience welcome.

Thank you.

OP posts:
soapbox · 22/08/2006 21:02

Hi Blu

When we bought our current house, it was under investigation by the insurance company the sellers used, for possible subsidence.

We just arranged for the same insurance company to insure us, which they have done. Everything settled down for a while but some new cracks are developing - possibly because of the very dry weather we were having - and so it is now under investigation again.

The only downside really, is that we can't shop around for the best rate for the insurance, and we are probably paying a bit of a premium over the market rate.

morningpaper · 22/08/2006 21:04

We are being investigated atm too because of some cracks

mandymac · 22/08/2006 21:11

Our 30's semi had been looked at for subsidence before we bought it. The conclusion seemed to be that it was old movement or settlement. Our lender asked if they could quote on the buildings insurance - which they did and they were aware of the movement, but still offered to insure us.

We have noticed some hairline cracks getting longer over the past few months and were debating today whether to contact the insurance company to look at it.

What do they do exactly? I am just such a wuss when it comes to things like this.

Sorry for hijack!

Original poster
Blu · 22/08/2006 21:18

hello Soapbox!
It's all a bit mad. As I understand it most of London heaves up and down enough to make you seasick, because of the notorious clay. An underpinned house is likely (if it has been done properly) to be far more stable / solid than an un-underpinned one - but you can't get insurance! the man from the Pru admitted as much!

In my googling, I found a recent Mn thread where Twiglett said her house had been underpinned as a precaution. Could someone who e mail her do me a huge favour and ask her to e mail me?The neanderthal web-based system I'm using to pick up mail on hol only enables me to reply to messages I have received!

Soapbox and MP - hope all is ok with your houses.

OP posts:
Original poster
Blu · 22/08/2006 21:23

mandymac - this is quite re-assuring about cracks - and says that these days underpinning is rarely necessary.

the estate agent said to us that loits of people had houses underpinned 'as a precaustion' in the 80s and 90s - but the hosue we are interested in was underpinned 4 years ago...

OP posts:
soapbox · 22/08/2006 21:26

Blu - have just sent a CAT to Twiglett asking her to mail you

mandymac · 22/08/2006 21:32

Thanks Blu! It is the reselling that is the real worry isn't it. I love our house and it was exactly what we wanted at the price we could afford. I am just anticipating that when we come to sell it may take longer than expected, also we probably won't get top whack for it - but then that is probably why we could afford it in the first place. Hope it works out for you!

morningpaper · 22/08/2006 21:34

Yes that is the worry Mandy ... we've spent a lot on the house and really hoped to make money on it. Now the thought of selling makes me shudder! We might have to live here forever!

Original poster
Blu · 22/08/2006 21:38

It's the re-sale that worries me (IF we get as far as finding an insurer). But then every house in the area (an up and coming property hotspot) will be the same! Either cracked, or not cracked because it has been underpinned!

OP posts:
Original poster
Blu · 22/08/2006 21:39

And many thanks for the CATing, Soapbox!

OP posts:
mandymac · 22/08/2006 21:42

We have yet to do ours up, but we will do it and I am working on the following theory: Basically if we do have to live here forever then we might as well make it exactly what we want. Also, if it is looking lovely, then buyers are more likely to try and get past the subsidence issue iyswim? I can't remember the statistic, but the are a fairly hefty percentage of houses which suffer movement of some description - I can't believe that they all then stop selling and the owners never ever move again.

dizzydo · 22/08/2006 22:38

Blu, I think you have less of a worry with underpinning - that should have fixed the problem. I think the difficulty is subisdence when the problem has not been fixed.

We have just gone through all this agony with our house that we are currently trying to buy. Basically it seems that subsidence or nderpinning raises terrible fears in everyone and rightly so as insurance companies are very reluctant to insure. Indeed all the high street companies like direct line, Abbey National, Nationwide etc. simply refuse outright unless the property was underpinned or suffered subsidence after the insurance was taken on with them.
Someone earlier in the thread said you will probably pay over the odds for insurance because there is not so much choice but to be honest insurance premiums are a gamble anyway IMO. They nearly always wriggle out of something or the other so if you pay a bit more and know what you are getting I think that's fair enough. We managed to get our new house insured through our mortgage company and they did not load the premium. The only criteria they stipulated was they wanted to see the sign off from the technical surveyor to say the underpinning work had been done satisfactorily which we provided for them.

Mandymac you are right, London houses especially have so many probs because of the clay soil. If when you sell you want to provide your buyers with reassurance (and be honest immediately it will show up somewhere on all the paperwork that passes between the lawyers) get a structural engineer to take a look not just a surveyor) and get it in writing to say that the work has sorted the problem out. If you are worried that your house might be subsiding I would get a structural engineer to give an opinion and then if necessary underpin it and get it signed off before you try to sell.

Hope that all makes sense.

daysoftheweek · 22/08/2006 23:04

Prob. not what you want to hear. I am desperate to buy a house but wouldn't touch one which had subsidence/been underpinned. Probably an irrational thought I can blame on my parents but you asked. I know it's common in London but there are lots of places that don't have this problem to choose from.

Twiglett · 23/08/2006 09:07

got soapbox's email and replied Blu

are you coming here?

jura · 23/08/2006 09:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

morningpaper · 23/08/2006 12:50

daysoftheweek I agree with you - I've turned down two houses because they had histories of subsidence

Now I'm living in one - DOH!

hub2dee · 23/08/2006 13:17

Here's an old thread with some useful info maybe:

Link .

Original poster
Blu · 23/08/2006 17:56

Thank you all!
Hub - that thread came up on the first page of google links when i googled 'insuring undepinned property'!

There seem to be two scenarios: It was done properly, with all reports and guarantees in place, and no further movement has takern place, and the problem is not an ongoing one - e.g landslip. If it was a case of London clay, the underpinnning will have improved the state of the property. However some (many) future buyers will be suspicious or not at all interested.
OR
It has been done unsuccesfully, possibly without correct documentation, the problem is persisting, and it will be a very expensive thorn in the owners side.

I am on holiday, so we're not in a position to view other properties, so i am spending the time asking the vendors to give all the info, including whether it was done under building Control, original structural engineers report that recommended it, the drawings of what was done, etc etc. I have spoken to a structural engineer who says that if they have been done properly as in scenario there is nothing at all wrong with underpinned properties in the area in question.

So we'll see what answers we get - with a view to looking at other houses as soon as we get back.

Thank you everyone who has give views / experience...any more gratefully received!

OP posts:
hub2dee · 23/08/2006 18:15

LOL@ the thread ranking in google, Blu.

Good luck with your house hunting.

morningpaper · 23/08/2006 20:22

More DOOM chez MorningPaper

The water board came today and think there might be a mains leak under the house

So we are living in a house which is disappearing into a swamp

oh joy

hub2dee · 23/08/2006 21:15

If the leak is between the stopcock and your house wall, some water boards will repair this for free in an effort to curtail leakage. (Others will say their responsibility stops at the street stopcock IYSWIM).

We had one last year in our front garden which Thames Water sorted for free.

Doesn't help you, obviously, if the leak is under your home. Hope you get it sorted OK, mp.

morningpaper · 23/08/2006 21:18

thanks dude

they say their responsibility stops at the pavement

bugger

hub2dee · 23/08/2006 21:35

That's a right mare. Can you see any suspect damp patches in the garden, or shrubs which look in surprisingly good nick ?

Inside all you can look for are signs of damp at the base of walls, flooring that doesn't seem as perfect-a-fit as the rest of the room etc. Usually the run from cock to kitchen sink is very straight, but not always.

It can actually be much quicker / cheaper to run a new main from the house to the cock than trying to find the leak IYSWIM, depending on size of run etc.

morningpaper · 23/08/2006 21:42

nothing obvious but I suspect that it is causing hte subsidence

which is a bit obvious

I'm hoping I can convince the insurers that this is the case and they can fix both

hub2dee · 23/08/2006 21:52

Are you on a meter ? With all drain in the house off, you can then actually measure the leak in litres per hour IYSWIM... that might clarify if it was a biggy or just a dribble....

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