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Original poster

Anyone got any views on this?

45 replies

petunia · 15/06/2006 16:58

I was caught speeding and offered a "Speed Awareness" course as an alternative to having points on my licence. The problem is that I'm breastfeeding my 7 week old at the moment. I'd rather do the course than have points on my clean, 16 year old licence. I e-mailed them to let the course providers know that if I did the course, I'd be bringing DD with me as I'm breastfeeding, and they've replied saying that they can't allow a child in "due to Health and Safety reasons and to minimise disruptions." The only alternative that they can offer is that I've got 'til the 28th September to do the course (think they're assuming that I'll have stopped breastfeeding then and DD3 will be totally weaned or something). The other alternative is for me to have the points on my licence, which I don't want!
I really am so gobsmacked at this. "Health and Safety" seems to be used as an excuse for everything these days.

OP posts:
Kathlean · 15/06/2006 19:57

Sorry I think they are right.

They may not be insured for a child.

Will you be looking after the child yourself for the entire course? If your childs cries for a while a couple of times during the course, needs feeding, changing winding etc that will all mean you being distracted from the course and everyone else watching will probably be distracted as well. If you leave the room to feed your child for any period of time say from 20 minutes to maybe an hour you will be missing the point of you being sent on the course.

Sorry probably not the answer you are after but I think they are right to say this.

MerlinsBeard · 15/06/2006 20:00

how long is the course? hours?days?

Agree with not taking the baby tho - sorry

Whizzz · 15/06/2006 20:03

Ditto it is probably an insurance thing + no facilities for babies (feeding/changing etc) & would be distracting for others in the group if baby got upset etc

Katymac · 15/06/2006 20:05

How long is the course - could you express? Just for that day?

Could someone else look after her at the centre and you feed at meal breaks?

Original poster
petunia · 15/06/2006 21:43

The course lasts 3 hours. I'm possibly wondering whether they'd extend the 28th September deadline. If not and they're so concerned with Health & Safety, then I don't really have the choice that they've offered. They're are forcing me to have points on my licence.

I actually wonder what would have happened if I hadn't bothered to e-mail them, booked myself on to the course and turned up on the day with DD3. What would they have said to me?

OP posts:
rickman · 15/06/2006 21:46

How old will your dd be in September?

I'm pretty sure she will be able to cope with being left for 3 hours, leave a bottle of expressed milk in case its needed, but I think it will be ok.

Sometimes you just can't take your baby somewhere with you, but 3 hrs isn't that long, 3 weeks would be a different story.

Katymac · 15/06/2006 21:47

It won't be long until DD is old enough to last 3 hrs - see if they have a room someone can use to babysit the little one in feed her just before and straight after

Make the appt for the end of Sept and get a babysitter - for 3 hrs they could probably sit in the car or take the babba for a walk/shopping

Kathlean · 15/06/2006 21:55

They are not forcing you to have the points on your license. They are giving you an opportunity not to have them. A lot of us just get the paperwork in the post and are not lucky enough to get this option. I had a clean license for 15+ years until 2 years ago.

By the 28th September your child will be 5 months old. That is plenty old enough to be left for 3 hours. I think you are making a bit of a thing about nothing.

MerlinsBeard · 15/06/2006 21:56

sorry to be blunt but 3 hours isn't all that long. u can express or leaveformula ready or u can get the points, big deal over nothing if u ask me

mrsbang · 15/06/2006 21:58

I understand your concerns, but do try to arrange something for your baby.

Three hours isn't that long (although it no doubt feels like it) but the course is very good.

Chandra · 15/06/2006 21:59

3 hours? please... I'm sure baby will survive, and by then you may even enjoy a bit of baby-free time Wink

foundintranslation · 15/06/2006 22:13

I took 5 month old, exclusively bf ds on an excursion with a group of students last year, and several times during the week left him with dh for around 2 1/2-3 hours while I went to a visit or something with the students. He was always fine.

Original poster
petunia · 15/06/2006 22:32

DD will be 5 months old in September. I'm trying to sort something out and I'm not trying to get out of this. I'm trying to be reasonable (perhaps I didn't sound like that at first but it does annoy me when it seems like "Health & Safety" is given as a reason for everything these days) and at the same time do what's best for DD. I'm also going by what happened with DD1 & 2, and for them I never expressed milk or gave them formula, and was also able to take them to work (I was a Nanny so was able to feed them without needing to use formula etc). So I've never had to leave the children with anyone and provide feeds for them.

OP posts:
mrsbang · 15/06/2006 22:35

I think, as well as the Health and Safety aspect that has been quoted, they will assume that you will be distracted by the baby, rather than taking on board the message given during the course (ie, turning up but not actually taking note).

hunkermunker · 15/06/2006 22:37

You have two choices.

You either:

take the points

leave your baby and do the course

I know you've not been forced to leave your baby in the past, but you were speeding and they're offering you a way to avoid points - and being reasonable about the time you have to do this.

It's three hours - chances are if you give your baby a big feed before you leave her, she'll sleep the whole time you're away. Or if she is awake, she'll be a lot happier to wait for a feed until you to come home than she would be at 7wo.

FillyjonktheFluffy · 15/06/2006 22:41

Ok, now you shouldn't have been speeding, Grin but...

I do think this is unfair. I can't believe anyone would go for points over a 3 hour course. And actually, I think these courses should be encouraged (actually i thik you should have to do both, but hey).

Basically, they're making the preferable option inaccesible to you becuase you're bf. Which sends out a poor message about the value placed on bf.

FINE to say no to babies being there, but then they need to extend the deadline. Your dd is not even the 6 months recommended b4 weaning by the WHO.

And I could not have left my dd at 5 months, she would absolutley have screamed the place down for 3 hours. My son, yes, but dd, no way.

I think in the cirucmstances they should extend the deadline so you can do the course.

I would actually kick up a fuss, speak to a manager and your MP.

Kathlean · 15/06/2006 23:01

There is no problem with petunia breastfeeding. How does weaning even come into it? No-one is suggesting anything of the sort. However plenty of babies can go for 3 hours between feeds at 5 months of age.

They are not making anything inaccessible to petunia just saying that she cannot take her child on the course which is perfectly fair and it needs to be done in the timescale they allow.

I think kicking up a fuss and going to MP's etc is a complete over-reaction.

singledadofthree · 15/06/2006 23:19

kathlean - sorry to jump in here, havent read it.

are you still in touch with holliec? havent heard from her in ages - is she ok?

Kathlean · 15/06/2006 23:21

No I haven't. I have sent a few e-mails and got no reply. I have no other contact detais so cannot do anything else. I don't want to stress her out by sending her lots of e-mails though.

singledadofthree · 15/06/2006 23:22

ok thanks - was just a bit bothered is all. good that youve been in touch - thanks

Blu · 15/06/2006 23:37

I think it is a bit discriminatory not to give bf mothers a bit more flexibility. DS refused point blank to drink ebm from a bottle...but the chances are, petunia, that your baby will be happy with ebm, and will be quite happy for 3 hours without you at 4-5 months. As a nanny, you must know that children DO survive for longer than 3 hours without their Mums!

Is the course practical (i.e involves driving at safe speed, or experiencing near-death experiences as a way of puting you off???) if so the H%S objection seems reasonable. If it is desk based, the H&S reason sounds like flannel - but reasonable of them to refuse from a 'distraction' pov.

Hope it all gets sorted satisfactorily.

Chandra · 16/06/2006 01:39

I think that you have given a great oportunity of avoiding points by spending three insignificant hours in a course in exchange. To demand for more privileges considering you were the one who were speeding seems a bit cheeky to me... obviously you don't consider the ofense of speeding bad enough and perhaps you would be a more careful driver having 3 points in your license than after taking that course, which you don't value high enough as to be apart from your baby for a length of time similar to the one she would use to take a nap.

FillyjonktheFluffy · 16/06/2006 08:20

agree with blu re discrimination.

Write to them explaining that you are happy to do the course, but, in line with the WHO reccomendations, are bf to 6 months and so cannot leave your child for 3 hours in a row.

If no luck, go to your MP.

You should not have to choose between points on your license and breastfeeding your child.

There is nothing wrong with asking for this, its not some concession just for you, its govt policy.

If you are lucky enough to have a child that is happy for 3 hours away from you at 5 months, good for you. That was not my experience.

edam · 16/06/2006 08:25

Agree with Fillyjonks. But they probably haven't come up against this before and so aren't thinking about the implications. Do think you should argue that they should extend the deadline given your personal circumstances. And if they are sniffy about extending it by another month, get on to your MP.

Original poster
petunia · 16/06/2006 10:38

Thanks for all your responses. To answer some questions, the course is desk-based.
Yes, plenty of babies do go for 3 hours but I've not experienced this, either as a Nanny (youngest child I looked after was a b/fed 9mth old who was eating/drinking everything at that age) or with DDs. (DD1 b/f every 2 hours day and night in her first year).
I didn't realise that the recommendations were that babies were b/fed only, for the 1st 6mths.
Filly, Blu and Edam- I think you've "hit the nail on the head" as to where I'm coming from on this and especially do think that they've never come across this before. The ironic thing is that this course is run by the County Council! Would have thought they'd be the first people to be following government policy!

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