Another thread about wills

[HintofBream]

The other current will thread is by someone, who, quite understandably, feels hard done by because of the way her parents' will favours her siblings.

I want to avoid causing any hurt with my own will, and would welcome opinions.

I have two sons, whom I love equally. One has three children, other none as yet. Should our estate be divided equally between the two of them or should it reflect the number of grandchildren? What if childless DS has children after our deaths? (DH and I are fairly ancient so quite possible)

We have already given both sons substantial amounts for house purchase etc, and both are financially OK, neither is 'needier' than the other.
Someone on the other thread remarked that we should not feel responsible for our own chidren's family planning policy. I understand but am not sure how DSs would feel about that.

To complicate things, DS2, the one with the kids, is a single parent but is now in a blossoming relationship with a woman with a small DD of her own. Fond though I am of these two, I would not be happy for my own grandchildren's share of the cash to be diminished by further divvying up. Sorry if that seems unkind, I hope at least some of you will understand that bit.

If I was in your situation I would divide your estate eq

Oops ... Equally between the two children. The one with children can divvy up their share to their children if they so wish.

Divide equally to your children. What they do with it is up to them.

Hello there

This isn't really an AIBU thread, so we've moved it to Money Matters now. Hopefuly you will get some good advice and input there, OP.

I think equally too. If you wanted to, you could take out a 'token' amount to leave to grandchildren, but think that it's fair to divide the rest equally...

Sorry, I would have thought it was more about being fair than a money matter, just like the other will one which you seem to have nomproblem with.

Equally between your sons.

Why should the one with children get more money just because they have children? How to make your childless child feel really loved and valued...

I would say 50/50 if you are giving to your children.

Or X% (equal) to both your children and x% (equal) to each grandchild that you have at the time of your death.

I completely understand what you are saying about wanting your money to continue to help your own grandchildren after your death, but I am firmly of the opinion that parents should spilt their estate equally between their two children.

I intend to do that with my two boys, but it's easy to say while they are still young and haven't made any life choices yet!

I'd like to think that I would stick to dividing my estate equally between them even if one of them was going to be a step parent to someone else's child, because I hope it would be a positive choice for his life, and one that I would want to be respectful of.

Also, as you say, the other son may have children after your death, and as you are presumably writing your will where it may have to deal with your death while your sons are still young, that's going to be a very difficult thing to make provision for.

If you get to the age where your sons are too old to have more children, then you can change your will to reflect grandchildren if you want to.

Interesting that we have a unanimous vote for equal shares, with possibky minor adjustments fir grandchildren, and thanks to all of you.
Our current wills do equal shares, but written before last grand child appeared. Clouds, I love your assumption that childless son is still "young" - actually he is 41, but his partner is only 31, so we are very much hoping they will produce.
Relaxed, it is exactly because I don't want either of them to feel more or less loved than the other that I am worrying about this. Whatever we decide I will certainly discuss it with them so that there are no nasty shocks in the solicitor's office.

When I made the assumption I did have in mind that your childless son is likely to be an adult, but young enough to have children. Sorry if I came across badly!

Are you actually thinking of getting a will or have you already got one? I'm just wondering what you are thinking about now?

Another vote for equal shares.

I have a dear friend who is in this situation right now as I write. She is unhappily single, after her DH died suddenly and has no DCs. her brother has Dcs. her mother's will gave everything to the brother because he had children, and so needed to provide for them. My friend is desperately hurt. She feels like it means that her parents did not value her, and what SHE was, and they only valued her brother who procreated. In essence, that their grandchildren were more important to them than their own daughter.

To say she is devastated is not an exaggeration. She feels that clearly she has been devalued. That her parents did not really love her.

On a more practical note - would the son who has children need/want the inheritance? You say you've already given them both money to buy houses etc. This may well mean that his estate is already above £325,000 and therefore if your son has your inheritance as well as his own assets there would be inheritance tax to pay on his estate if he was to die shortly after you.

If he doesn't need the money you could put his family's share into a trust instead (or leave it directly to grandchildren). There are several ways of arranging this. The need for such planning depends on how much money we're talking about - £100k each doesn't require massive tax planning, £500k and you should definitely think about tax consequences.

My FIL is leaving everything equally between DH and his brother; we have 4 children and DBiL is unlikely to have any but we are also much better off than DB.
I can't imagine that either of these factors will have swayed DFiL; he has always treated his sons equally.

I'm another one who says divide it equally. If yr DS doesn't have any children, then chances are he will leave his estate to his nephews and neices - so yr GC see the cash in the end.

But if you leave (love) one DS more, then you must explain why to both of them.

Don't count on the left-out DS to care for you in old age - with no support from family, he'll need to work hard, not care for parents who've left the lot to other people.

I would leave something small to each grandchild - not by name, just '£500 to each of my grandchildren' so any future dc born after your will is made are also included. I am sure it would mean a lot to your son if your step grandchild is also included, with perhaps a proviso that her mother is still with your son. And then divide equally.

Thanks Moomin, good to know someone in a similar situation to DS2 is happy. Yes Clouds, we do have a will, equal shares at the moment. I suppose what has got me thinking now is the possibility of DS2's girlfriend becoming a fixture hence her daughter becoming DS' stepdaughter.

Riksti, gosh I had not yet reached the point of considering inheritance tax liability of the DSs themselves. Yes, the estates of both, even without inheritances from us, exceed the allowance. Must speak to them about taking steps, as we have done, to minimise their liability.

I have had a chat this afternoon with childless DS and DH, and the conclusion was, as you all say, equal shares, and DS pointed out that if he remains childless, his estate would end up with the DGCs anyway. I shall now have the conversation with DS2.

Cleanandclothed, excellent idea regarding step grandchild.

Corygal, we are not relying on either of them to look after dear old mum and dad in old age.

My Mum and Dad made their wills some years ago and my brother has three children, I have two. The wills left the grand children an amount each with the remainder split between my brother and I.
My Dad passed away and some years on, my Mums brother told her that he felt her will was unfair and that she should split her estate between my brother and myself and that we should make our own arrangements for our children ~ the grandchildren. Although I never said anything to either of my parents, I agreed with my Uncle and I'm very glad to say that Mum has changed her will.
The only downfall is for my brothers children as the money will disappear and they will get little to no benefit, whereas my children will benefit enormously.

I'm a will writer and although I do see quite a few unequal splits, by far the majority of my clients leave everything to their children in equal shares, irrespective of how many children they each have (if any).

In some cases, where the children of the deceased are already well over the IHT threshold, it's more attractive to leapfrog the children altogether and divide the money between the grandchildren. In order for this to be as fair as possible, I always suggest that the grandchildren are grouped according to parentage.

So for example, the children (A) (B) and (C) have varying numbers of children. So one third is divided equally between the children of A, one third equally between the children of B etc. That then avoids a situation where one family who has 6 children ends up getting six times more than a couple who have only one.

If anyone's interested, I have a paid for advert over on Classifieds/Small Business titled "5* Will Writing Business Recommended by Mumsnetters"

I solved the problem for my parents by telling them to leave everything to my sister. I don't want diddly squat.

That way, I don't have to clear the house. It's her problem!

(ever seen that tv programme 'Hoarders' ? )

A family controlled discretionary trust would definitely be the way to go. Depending on the amount you can do linked trusts with a master family trust (sounds more complicated than it actually is)

the trust can 'lend' the money to your children and when they themselves pass away, the trust recalls the money from their estate and the IHT is therefore avoided on that amount. The trust is then free to lend the money to the grandchildren (depending on how you write the trust this can be possible anyway).

We use this company for our trusts, they would be able to help you find someone local to you www.siep.co.uk/index.php?id=1

Thanks, Notmadeofrib, I am pretty sure our current will is like that, with a letter of wish to determine who gets what proportion which can be easily varied, but I will check.

Thinking about it still more, Notmade, I am not sure our trusts as you described. Will definitely check, thanks for the info.

usually is a discretionary trust just ensure that:

they are set up now (£10 can do this) so that it captures the law as it stands - some argue against that, but multiple trusts are being attacked. Doing this ensures that the asset values are as low as poss to ensure the tax implications are minimal - there are various HMRC rules around this.

the deed is wide ranging on who can receive benefits (usually down the blood line only, but can be wider if desired)

that it can lend interest free

it doesn't cease after the children take their money - inter-generational trusts are much more valuable second and third time round. Once the money is in a trust it shouldn't need to exit until it's perpetuity rules demand.

The only area this doesn?t really work on is the family home although you can always move 50% into trust on the first death, but if it is very valuable then there will be tax implications.