Public Transport Accident for DD (long, sorry).

[Katiedale73]

Compared to some of the things going on here (huge hugs and sympathy to Puddytats btw - hope things get better), this is going to sound like peanuts, but I feel I have to share this with a 'community' of sorts, so here goes.
In early March, me and DD (4) and DS (15mths) were travelling by bus to drop DD at pre-school. It's a residential route and there's a big roundabout we go round before our stop.
On said roundabout, the bus suddenly jolted and DD was flung out of her seat across the aisle (she was sitting sideways on). She landed on her face on the edge of the step up to the seat opposite. When I picked her up, there was blood everywhere and she was screaming. We went to hospital and were discharged. We then had to travel home on TWO further buses.
The following day DD had two baby teeth removed under general anaesthetic at the Dental Hospital. I went to the local news and blasted the bus company for their unsafe driving and their lack of child restraints. I'm in the process of the suing them, BUT:
My solicitor sent me two statements (the driver and a 'witness' who was apparently on the bus). The driver says he was going at normal speed and doesn't know how DD came to 'fall from her seat' (as he put it). The witness goes one further and says that he finds at fault 'the mother for not taking care of her child's safety' and that the bus was going slowly, and DD 'slipped' from her seat.

1. The only person asked to be a witness (by the driver) was a distant relative of mine who was travelling with her son - she has never been contacted for her version of events by the bus company and she also says the driver didn't ask anyone else for their contact details.
2. DD was sat two seats away from me. Between us was a little boy (whose mum I say hi to). The jolt was so sudden and unexpected that he too was thrown across the bus. Have seen his mum since and she's more than happy to be my witness.
3. When the driver stopped the bus he said to me that 'he had to slam his brakes on because a car pulled out from the left'. No mention of this in his statement!

Am I right to be so angry and fired up about this whole thing? DP was embarassed and horrified that I got the press involved and shows very little sympathy or support regarding my feelings. Sorry, felt the need to rant, even though it happened 2 months ago.

Katie,

I think you're quite right to be angry about it - I certainly would be if this had happaned to my daughter.
Have you spoken to your solicitor about the two statements he's sent to you and the fact that you can provide other witnesses who contradict what they are saying.

agree with bogwabbit about every right to be angry and about producing your own witnesses (or pointing out bus driver has not produced the only witness whose details he got at the time).

Sorry, I just went off on one and probably left loads of details out.

I have three witnesses who were on the bus that morning. All three are mother's who had their children with them and all three are saying the same thing as me (with no prompting from myself, I might add): the bus was going too fast and out of the blue suddenly jolted. DD was thrown, as was the little boy next to me and two buggies (one containing DS) and a pram were thrown out of the pram area.

The solicitor has contact details of all my witnesses and says she'll contact me as soon as she has their statements.

My mum thinks that the bus company are trying to make me back off by discrediting me (the whole 'bad mother' thing) so they don't have to pay out any compensation. Whatever they're doing, I'm disgusted.

Am thinking of starting a campaign for child restraints on public transport, but don't know where to start.

Oh here I go, leaping in playing devil's advocate again.

I can understand that you are angry and upset at both the accident and the response. Can I just please ask a few questions?

Why was your dd sitting sideways? Surely she should be sitting as far back in the seat as possible, with her back upright against the back of the seat.

Why was she sat 2 seats away from you?

Did you try to contact the bus company to discuss the situation or did you go straight to a solicitor and the press?

What do you aim to get by sueing? Do you want to see safe seating and belts and to prevent an accident happening again, or do you want financial compensation?

And before anyone screams at me, I am only asking questions that will come up in court if this proceeds that far? I am not making excuses for the attitude of the driver/company. I am just trying to get a balanced picture.

As I said earlier, I left details out at first posting.

DD was sitting upright and sitting back in her seat. She was in one of the sideways on single seats that you get on single deckers when you get on.

There was literally one seat between us. She used to like to sit on the single seats because they made her feel like a big girl and, as long as she held on tight to the bar, I didn't have a problem with it. It's impossible to hold both a child and a buggy in place on the bus as it is. Even had she been sat next to me, I wouldn't have been able to catch her because it was so sudden. There was a little boy next to me and I had no chance to catch him because the whole thing was so unexpected.

I spent two days trying to contact the bus company before contacting the press. The driver gave me an accident card with contact details on it and took my personal details. The card was basically aimed at people who had been in accidents in their car, not passengers. When I rang the number on the card I was told it was the wrong number and was given their Customer Care No, which was constantly engaged. I finally got through to that number on the afternoon after the press had been to see me.

However, the driver took my contact details - why did the bus company not contact me to see how my badly injured daughter was? And why, on the news, was their comment that 'these things happen'? Surely that's no excuse.

I DO want financial compensation (and I know that may sound cold and harsh). As far as I'm concerned, we have to continue using the bus because we can't afford for me to have driving lessons and get a car. I don't want a great deal and would have accepted whatever they offered, had they accepted liability. I'm exceptionally angry now because they don't seem to give a s**t about DD's injuries or ongoing anxiety and seem to be lying to get out of admitting liability.

I am all for safer public transport and have felt this way since I started taking DD on the bus as a baby. When I travelled alone (as I have done since starting secondary school some 21 years ago) I just got on with it, but children are simply not safe and DD's accident has proved this.

Whilst I think that public transport should be safer and I sympathise with your poor DD I despise the whole "I DO want financial compensation" attitude.

I was composing my post when you said that you had missed out details.

Again, playing devils advocate.

I agree entirely that the attitude of the company has been terrible. That is something that situations like this should address. Personally I would have found an address and either visited or written to the company before I called the press, but that's me.

As for 'these things happen' unfortunately they do. That's why they are called accidents. The driver was in the wrong if he mislead you or anyone else in what he said about the circumstances but nevertheless it does sound like a typical and very common road traffic accident. It is no excuse but it is the truth.

Finally, sorry but yes I do think it sounds cold and harsh that you want financial compensation.

If this had happened to me I would have considered writing to the press and bus companies in order to campaign for restraints. THe way you are going about it makes it seem like a personal thing about the driver. If he hadnt have breaked and had crashed and injured someone, then that would have been awful too. Accidents do happen and buses should have belts.

I disagree with the sue them for money thing too.

nothercules has said what I was going to say.

and also of course they've changed their story now: you're suing them. suing does that to companies/organisations.

actually I disagree with those who say a wish for compensation sounds cold and hard.
Katiedale's DD has been hurt. Hopefully it won't leave any lasting marks, but she must have been frightened at the hospital as well. It may be that what happened was an unavoidable accident caused by another driver whom the bus driver could not avoid. In that case the legal case will fail. Or it could have been that the bus driver was careless, negligent, driving unsafely, or expressing his bad temper. In that case I think it would be perfectly reasonable for her DD to receive some money that can be kept for her until she is old enough to have it, and maybe a little present now.
One of the many limitations on our legal system is that there is almost no way of obtaining closure for something which leaves you feeling upset and angry except by claiming compensation because that is all that the system can offer you. So many times what people really want is an apology or an explanation. There are mediation schemes, but in a situation like this mediation is not usually going to be on offer.

The one comment I would make is not to lose sight of what actually happened - getting more and more upset and angry about the way the bus company respond to your complaints and publicity is not going to make your claim against them any more successful.

must confess that only now have I read your name correctly nothercules - I always used to read it as "nother-cules" and wondered where on the body they could be found!

I have sued a driver in an accident before now. but my dd2 has also been flung across before now. different situation, basically a lady wlaked in front of the bus, making the driver brake sharply. dd2 bashed her head and cut her lip. driver apologuised and we accepted that. it wasnt his fault. dd2 was sat next to me, i was also thrown forwards.

when i made a claim against a driver, what happened was that he took a corner too fast cut the corner and was on his mobile. he didnt see us till his wheels were over the bonnet of our car. it was a 32tonne LGV. my neck was badly damaged and i still suffer now.

Tbh I wouldn't be a bus driver. They must live in fear of this kind of thing.
While I agree that the bus co's attitude is far from ideal, I'm with StG on this one - these things (sadly) happen.

I don't see what difference compensation will make tbh. I can understand wanting an appology and for the bus company to admit what really happened but what is the money going to achieve now?

We were on the bus today and DS was being thrown about a bit, but I was sat next to him and knew it was my responsibility to keep him safe. I can understand you also had a baby to look after which makes it harder for you to watch both, but maybe she could have been sitting next to the buggy while you stood by them both (thats if there wasn't enough seats for you)

I'd like to see restraints on the buses, epsecially for children.

i would use the bus more if there were seat belts provided. we still use buses occasionally as its cheaper than parking in town, but its harder now with 3 kids.

why should Katiedale's dd not get compensation.

My dh was involved in a car accident for which he got compensation. The compensation was for his loss of income, the time and expense spent travelling to hospital for treatment and for having to undergo pain for several months afterwards.

Katiedales ss obviously suffered pain. I imagine the family incurred expenses in having to be with her at the hospital, chilcare for her other child maybe, time of work for her partner etc etc.

Accidents do happen, but when someone is forced to undergo considerable suffering due to someone else's negligence then that person deserves some recompense.

I'd just like to respond to those of you who feel that my attitude towards compensation is wrong.

Firstly, I was advised to ask for compensation directly to the bus company by one of their own representatives. Until that point it hadn't crossed my mind. Once this happened, they started denying liability.

Secondly, if I'd been driving and involved in a collision with the bus no one would have a problem with me claiming insurance, so what's the big issue with me claiming something for my daughter's injuries and ongoing upset and anxiety?

I'm not a cash-grabbing person by nature, nor am I a spotlight seeker. I went to the local news because they'd recently done a piece on speeding buses in our city and I felt this was just further evidence of what they'd highlighted.

As for the bus driver, my initial reaction was that he was speeding because the bus company force their drivers to stick to unrealistic timetables, but since then he has actually LIED in his statement.

One of the other mother's on the bus (who I've seen on the bus since) informed me that the driver mounted the kerb, which is why my daughter and the other little boy were thrown out of their seats. This is not safe driving in my opinion, neither is going at excessive speed on a roundabout.

I keep my children as safe as is humanly possible on the bus. My daughter always holds on, sits on her bottom and in her seat and doesn't run up and down the aisle. It's not possible to hold onto a buggy and a child together (believe me, I've been trying for the past 6 weeks) - when the bus jolts you ALL get thrown because if I'm holding them I can't hold on myself.

I'm not a bad mother nor a bad person, so please show a little understanding for my situation here.

If you want to campaign for better safety on public transport you could contact Rospa or your local MP as a starting point. Not sure where you can go on your personal claim other than through your solicitor, but surely they would have public liability insurance to cover such instances.

LIZS, thanks for the tips. It's nice to have somewhere to start.

It strikes me as odd that public transport is the one area that doesn't have to have seatbelts, especially since it's now illegal for mini-buses not to have them.

The bus company do have insurance that covers them for public accidents, but they're denying liability which is why it's going the way it is.

Katie - I have enormous sympathy for you. I hate taking DS on the bus - he has been trapped in the doors by an impatient driver, lurched off his seat, they accelerate and brake aggressively making me feel sick, and often causing people to cling to the rails for safety, I too have reported a bus driver for speeding 9he was going over 40 in a 30 limit with a packed double dekker), and he braked and I badly bruised my elbow, whilst holding DS in a babysling.

It must have been heartbreaking to lose dd's teeth.

Unfortunately, I suspect that it would have been better to sort it all out before making allegations in the press, but we live and learn - and the bus company handled it very badly.

Couldn't agree more that the standard of bus driving generally is really bad - I'm sure some of that is caused by unrealistic timetables and poorly maintained buses, but you really do feel quite unsafe taking small children on the bus and Katie's awful story reminds you what can go wrong.
Your poor dd, Katie, I had a less serious mouth accident when I was her age and I have never forgotten the pain and the huge amount of blood. Very traumatic.
I must admit the press would not have been my first port of call either, but best of luck with getting the bus company to admit liability and dangerous driving.

This morning, coming home from pre-school, same route that the accident happened on, the driver saw his mate walking along on the other side of the road, so he put his window down and started to have a chat with him - all while continuing to drive the bus. He wasn't looking at the road at all!

A few weeks ago a driver told me to 'hurry up and get off because he was 10 mins late'. This was after he stopped in the middle of the road instead of pulling up to the kerb and ignored me when I asked him to drop the platform, so I had to take my time getting the buggy off because of the angle of it.

I turned around and said 'I beg your pardon?', but he shut the doors in my face and drove off.

On one of the routes where my parents live there was a huge thing in their local news about a driver who had thrown a mother with a baby in a pram off the bus in the middle of nowhere (it's quite a rural area) because they baby was crying!

What makes me laugh is that our bus company are running this big campaign about how safe they are and how well they're tackling anti-social behaviour on their buses - seems they've forgotten to tackle the anti-social drivers too.

london bus drivers arecrazy too!
last year we went to the notting hill carnival and the journey home was hell!
we had been to my cousins for a bbq to round the day off so it was 2am and we had to get a night bus.
we waited whilst four or five drove straight past packed full, and then one finally stopped
The driver was an utter lunatic! he was driving through red lights, swerving into oncoming traffic , swearing and manicly laughing.
he kept leeting more and more people on and we were totallysquashed in, standing up (I was 7 months preg. atthe time..not good!)
then he started yelling racist abuse at my friend and some other guys squashed in next to us. this made others join in yelling at him and he pulled over and shouted for them to get off.
as they did, he closed the door on them, trapping one guy and splitting up their group by driving off. they kept on shouting and when he eventually let them off (and we took the opportunity to escape and wait for a sane driver!)
he then swerved the bus towards them on the pavement, apparantly trying to run them over.
my god..had i not been so bemused i would have taken his details and reported him to london transport
where the hell did they find this guy?