Universal Credit implications for long-term SAHMs??? Help please!

[CSLewis]

Hi, I've just read the Mumsnet summary about Universal Credit, and read that parents of children aged 5-13 will be required to seek work during school hours, though I think those with a baby under one may be exempt.

Does anyone have any further details about this? It feels to me that a parent of young (primary-aged) children is being forced to return to the job market, regardless of whether they judge it to be in the best interests of their family

The point about the decision maker - isn't that the problem with benefits for many people? This massive area of your life - your income - is vulnerable to governments, officials etc. We are all vulnerable it's true. Working isn't exactly secure these days but at least people in work have up to date skills and experiences. And borrowing power if they need credit in an emergency.

The problem is that the government are slowly eroding away the welfare state but are doing nothing to help people live without it.

Its entirely preferable to not rely on the state. So why arent the government doing something about why people are reliant as discussed upthread, instead of worrying about how they are reliant.

Yes, they are. MN could be very helpful here. Because I think women have traditionally been very resourceful when the chips are down.

So why arent the government doing something about why people are reliant as discussed upthread, instead of worrying about how they are reliant.

Well they know why they're reliant. They're not interested in that. What they're interested in is stopping those who are reliant having children who in turn become reliant!

It's called social engineering.

Surely people are reliant for different reasons.

They want a smaller welfare state. And presumably lower taxes. Though there seems less talk of that.

We are just going round in circles now.

There is no doubt that the benefit system does fail people in their hour of need when they are most vulnerable. That is because it has grown far too large. And instead of targetting people in real need like you Wannabe because of red tape and cumbersome rules it fails people when they most need it. Benefit shouldn't be a way of life, it should be for people in need.

The problem is that most of us know someone who seems to live a surprisingly good life despite never having worked. And most of us know someone who, through no fault of their own, has fallen into difficulties and there seems to be no safety net for them.

I really don't understand how both of these things can happen simultaneously. And yet it does.

And all those people hankering back to the good old days when Daddy's salary kept a whole family going, who wants to live like that? Those were grim times. That was when bright girls were shafted from grammar school places and told to become nurses never doctors.

Plenty did still become Dr's though the difference was their salary then allowed the mortgage to be paid off early, the family to have cars, holiday's, nice clothes, it kept the economy turning and that is what we need to get back to rather than two salaries required to pay the bills.
I do think if being a stay at home parent is important to you then people need to look at the earning potential of their other half, it's no good marrying a supermarket worker and then being cross you can't manage on his salary for 5 years, that was never going to happen at anytime in history other than the last 10 years with tax credits.

Supermarket worker, maybe not. But on a professional salary of £30k plus it bloody well should be possible to support a SAHP and two children with a reasonably decent standard living. And it is, just about, but it is really really hard. And it is only possible because we are lucky to not live in an area of expensive housing, we only have one car and we take no holidays. Things have got totally out of kilter and I just wish something could be done to stop everyone having to climb on the treadmill of neverending work for no reward, but I fear as a society we have gone beyond the point of no return.

There you are then. It can be done. And yet the tone of your post suggests you feel poor because you have only one car and never take holidays. Previously when one salary supported another adult and children, I doubt people would have felt so hard done by. Our expectations are much higher than previous generations. And we expect food to be very cheap and jobs to be very rewarding. Even though many people are no better educated or harder working than previous generations.

Not poor no I don't. Yet it's amazing what is apparently "essential" to life according to the average person. I'd refer you to the results of that quality of life versus income survey, which reckoned more than £36k is necessary! I disagree btw, we do just fine, but as I said if we lived in the south east, for example, it would be impossible to survive on my salary and I think that's wrong.

The point was not "poor me", simply that it is only just possible even with a good career.

When I was born in the 70's dad was a civil servant on ok salary, although by no means huge and he had to pay commuting costs. Mum was a sahm for 5 years and we barely scraped by - no holidays, one car we couldn't always put fuel in and meal plans like no ones business. When I went to school age went back to work (generally not well paid) as that life was not sustainable. She worked until 63.

I know house prices are out of kilter (although food is cheaper) but I cannot agree this is a 'new' phoenomenon where 2 parents have to work to support their family.

I didnt take "poor me" from gaelics post.

Fact is, the government has set benefits at a level that we need to live on. For a single parent of one child, before housing costs, thats around £8000 per year. As the numbers of people in the household increase, whether that be a partner or more kids, the money increases. A family of four with two kids around £12000.

A family of four then, on £30k a year, should feel more comfortable surely? But the feeling of comfort gets eaten up by housing costs, childcare, running two cars.

Thats not right. But instead of realising that its the fault of high living costs, everyone cries "benefits are too high!!" "its the benefits!!" I see it all the time on here.

£30k is a lot of money. It should feel like it. But it doesnt.

Housing costs have gone way out of kilter to wages, especially those who are in the private-sector rental market. People don't 'expect' cheap food, and again, the cost of heating and power, which are taxed rather a lot of course, have risen far beyond inflation and wages. Ditto petrol, which affects us all even if you don't drive via higher transport costs, higher food prices, higher goods prices.

But it's easier to blame it all on the populous and scorn them than seeking any real change for everyone.

I didn't take "poor me" as in pity me. I thought she sounded as if she thought she was scrimping a bit. That's all. If I misread it, I apologise.

And this idea that £30k per annum is a lot of money. That is classic wrong think about salaries. It's so easy to look at the annual gross amount and think "Wow, that is a lot. Surely that should buy me..." But you don't have £30k. You have that less tax divided into months. I mean, we all know this but the annual salary way of thinking has led many people to think that they are better off than they in fact are.

£30k is doing a good job in this case. It is supporting four human beings. I just googled average salary in the UK. Last year it was £26,500. So the above salary of £30k is buying in the poster's own words a "reasonably decent standard of living." Kind of what you'd expect really.

In fact, she sounds better off than Sizzle's one income family in the '70s.

In the 80s and 90s my father supported us on £13000 take home pay. A family of four. My mum was a SAHP and she saved the CB for school uniform and xmas presents.

Admittedly, we didnt pay rent because we lived in my uncles house which had no central heating and the roof leaked. We were really quite poor but they still managed to save thousands.

Again, what you might expect. We now have examples of one income families from 70s, 80s, 90s and nowadays. And it seems to have been tight but doable in all those times.

Yes.

But now its impossible. Whats your point?

We could not live on 13k take home. Its just not feasable.

It is doable. That's my point. GaelicSheep says she does it. Your parents did it. One income families are not new and they have probably always had to struggle a bit unless the one income is very high.

NMW is £12800 before tax.

That is not doable.

Has it ever been doable to support a family on one low wage? My mum worked. So did my grandmothers. £13k was not a low wage when I was growing up.