Universal Credit implications for long-term SAHMs??? Help please!

[CSLewis]

Hi, I've just read the Mumsnet summary about Universal Credit, and read that parents of children aged 5-13 will be required to seek work during school hours, though I think those with a baby under one may be exempt.

Does anyone have any further details about this? It feels to me that a parent of young (primary-aged) children is being forced to return to the job market, regardless of whether they judge it to be in the best interests of their family

Depends on the parents I would say. And the policy isn't about one year olds.

Auntmaud - two anecdotal examples. Wow. That will solve the jobs crisis right there

CSLewis - I have much to say (as you might imagine). Will come back to this later on!

gaelic, I work for myself running a business. So no, hardly likely to give that up now am I?

I've never once used the term scroungers. I've never once mentioned my taxes. I've never once compared myself to anyone. I have simply said I don't why it's such a bad thing that someone with school age children might be asked to look for and apply for school hour work once her kids are at school. I still can't see why it's such a hardship.

do we actually KNOW that it is the poorest children who have their parents there 9-5?

Auntmaude.

I think it depends on how you define poor.
My dd is brought up and educated at home, in fact I have not worked nor had any form of childcare with any of my dc, although dc 1 and 2 attended school.
We receive tax credits and my dh has his own company. We are a low income family but our lives are rich in many ways, tyvm. So where poor families come from I don't know.

I agree with nkf

CS lewis.

I think your question really answers itself.

The long term sahp's certainly believe the parent is the best person for their dc. This is why they are doing it.

The short term sahp seeking work and requiring childcare will think it doesn't really matter.

There are some people who need to work and they usually say its not that important too.

No I shouldn't feel guilty....but I do, perhaps that's just me who knows. I do worry about having to claim though. And yes I am aware nobody on this thread has said "scroungers" so probably unfair of me to bring it up.

I think finding work if you have been out of work a while is hard. I volunteer for an education charity which focuses on adults who have been out of education for some time. Many of the people I come into contact with want to work but don't know where to start or don't feel qualified enough or confident enough.
We run short and fun courses to build up people's confidence in themselves and include stuff like Maths and English skills too. Apart from the tutors and charity managers everyone else's is voluntary. We have seen service users go back into the workplace feeling confident and others do several more courses until they feel confident to start applying for jobs. It's about giving people, the skills they need to do things for themselves and increase their self confidence. ...not everyone goes into work after using our service but many find something or at least feel more confident in themselves.

I think the work ethic point is a very valid one, surely we want children to have aspirations and aims in life. We dont want them to believe that having children means you find a man willing to not let you work or to claim benefits.

For families where only one parent works and tax credits etc are claimed then yes the state is paying for a parent to stay home. If both adults work then they may be self sufficient which is far better.

Childcare for under 4's wont have any long term effects. Few adults will have memories from that age and as long as the child is happy and secure they will be fine, lots go to preschool or nursery classes before 4 anyway. Of course, if you object to childcare you simply ensure you can afford to not work before having the child anyway.

Auntmaud, i agree there are jobs but some simply dont want to work and find every excuse not to. Ensuring people support themselves has to be the basis of any government. We should not be paying for those that could work but dont, it should be there to support those that truly need it due to disabilities or for a short few months between jobs.

I guess I am 'lucky' as I am exempt (Carer's Exemption, though actually do want to go back in the summer).

One of the biggest hurdles I have found for many families is the lack of flexible childcare: both my sisters work shifts and have husbands who either work shifts or work away a lot: if my Mother was not available to help they'd HAVE to give up work as there is simply no night time childcare available / very early morning (or rather there is but one sister runs it so obviously has to be there much earlier and her son is schooled in another town!). And would Mum be able to help if she hadn't been a SAHM? Nope, she'd still be employed...

So I think this policy will become a LOT more difficult once this generation has passed a level and suddenly there are no Grannies staying around to help. I also think that when there is a job shortage this is simply a method of forcing people off of employment benefits and quite possibly into severe poverty and then defaulting on rent etc and and needing state housing which comes with more conditions soon and therefore more state control...

I'd like to see exemptions for more people: those studying and training for example, or a mid rate carers level for people who don't meet criteria atm (35 hours) but contribute say 15 hours or more- an awful lot of people are caught in that gap, one where they neither fit carer's rules not can work enough hours to meet WTC target hours/ accept random workfare hours.
I also think the latter will help the country- MP bemoaning the lack of people willing to care for elders on politics show the other day but a good percentage of carers are left high and dry, causing the state to HAVE to step in at a cost of £££££££.

I'd also quite like some guidelines though on DH's self employment and how we will 'prove' his hours, nothing seems forthcoming at all; if his income drops for a week or two because customers drop off do we lose all our support? Or will it be allowed to balance with the busier weeks? We tend to get less work over Christmas or in the snow because when the postal system slows so does our delivery time, naturally.

As for instilling a work ethic- please are you having a laugh? All the time I was neither working nor a Carer I was studying FT as well as parenting; someone working 24 hours and caring for an elderly parent as well will be potentially hit by this- a good many people seeking work but unable to accept the random hour placements of workfare will be hit like this.

Mind I've just learned the council are selling the leisure building that houses the summer scheme for disabled children 2 of mine attend so if I do find work God knows how we will manage the holidays (ds1 too old for children's provision/ unable to self care, DH working but as often working at home SSD refuse to accept working and not able to provide the 1-1 the boys need) so thank goodness for Carer's Exemption, the cuts may well take my chances yet!

(Oh and by accept I mean, as they have no childcare and their partner is working, not accept as do not want to)

Work ethic is important but so many people lose their way in this through lack of confidence in themselves or their abilities. Finding work can be very hard if you haven't worked in a long time, it can be hard even if you have worked.....my exH was made redundant when our DS was a baby....it took him months to find a new job although he eventually did and those few months were hideous financially.

If we are going to push people back into the work place then there need to be jobs for them to go to....and evidence is suggesting there will not be enough jobs to go around.

.....and agree with everything Peachy just said too.

JakeBullet, your work sounds really worthwhile. I bet he service users get a lot of good from it.

HappyMummyofOne:

"Childcare for under 4's wont have any long term effects. Few adults will have memories from that age and as long as the child is happy and secure they will be fine".

Do you have any proof to offer of your first assertion? Because there is quite a lot of research that says precisely the contrary.

My contention is precisely that the child will not be "as happy and secure" with childminders/nursery than at home with their parents. I don't suppose many children are asked though.

This thread has been full of women stating how THEY feel, and what THEY need and deserve and want. I'm just suggesting that we could approach the issues also bearing in mind the best interests of the child. And if someone's needs must be compromised (and that's almost always the case), why must it always be the child's?

And I'm not sure how you can maintain that children need positive working role models to aspire to, whilst simultaneously asserting that said children are too young to remember anything from that period of their lives (1-4 years old).

Actually, this thread has not been full of women stating what they want. It has been pretty focussed on the question of UC.

CSLewis - Returning to your original post on this thread, can you explain why you think it isn't in the best interest of family life for parents to work during school hours?

Surely the basics - a happy,warm home,food and clothing are as important as a child being "happy and secure" . I really would put my need to care for my child "24/7 "secondary to them having warmth,food and clothes.

There are lots of compromises in life and sometimes you just have to do the best you can.
Im sure there were times my child loved being with her DF and times when she wished I was there ( and vice versa) .
I remember going to a little nursery at the end of our road and loving playing with the homemade playdough(pink!) and eating biscuits we didnt ever have at home.
I dont recall thinking my parents didnt love me
We live in a world where DC are starving each day and people are huffing because they might have to work while their DC are at school...
clutches pearls
as for the suggestion I give up my hardworked for career - well, are you qualified to do it ...?

You keep telling yourselves there are suitable jobs that don't exist. You keep sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring what's blatantly obvious to make yourselves feel better. I despair of most of you on this thread who cannot see past the ends of your own noses.

Noo ne has explained why they are happy to see their money wasted in a ritual humiliation of people who have also worked hard for years - raising the next generation - and have no realistic prospect of complying with what is being asked of them.

I don't agree the stay at home partner in a working couple has no work ethic, and how any of you can presume this just displays a level of arrogance frankly. If there were jobs galore I would not be having this argument on here, but there are not!

Furthermore, which is better. More second earners, or jobs for people who really are totally stuck on benefits with no one in their household earning any money at all. Really, where should the focus be? As with everything they go for the soft, easy, crowdpleasing targets.

"Childcare for under 4's wont have any long term effects. Few adults will have memories from that age and as long as the child is happy and secure they will be fine".

How do you tell that exactly? And if they're not happy and secure, what then? You ask the parents of adopted children how important the formative years were.

I can't believe people are really arguing that it is preferable for children to be in childcare in their formative years than at home with a parent or at least a relative. Really?!

I have worked night,weekends and evenings in order to maintain my career.
Where I work we are trying desperately to employ more people or get those who are working part time to increase their hours - the jobs are there.
the answer - no way- I will lose my benefits.
In the past year we have employed far more eastern europeans than british - because they have a work ethic.

Gaelic - what about working when your chld is in school then? Are you against that?

Oh God, for the umpteenth time. Where are all the jobs?! Where are they?