this is insane

[ladyjadey]

I am a single mum of two. I work 30 hours a week. I have been with my bf for over 2 years and we want to live together. He also has 2 kids who don't live with him. If we live together it seems I will lose all my tax credits because of his wage. He is far from wealthy because he pays a large maintenance payment every month, 600 pounds. Idepend on childcare to go to work which costs between 500 and 800 plus a month, dependingon school hols etc. There is no way I can pay this, a mortgage, bills and everything else on my own without my tax credits. He cannot afford to either.So I am better off as a single mother until my children grow up? Surely that can't be right!

Were you the OW? Are you why he left his wife?

If DP moves in with the OP he will have some spare cash to use towards the mortgage, as he won't have the the bills he currently has I.e, utility bills, council tax, insurances etc. Those bills will increase when they cohabit, but certainly won't double.

I think it would be an idea to get maintenance form the children's BIOLOGICAL father. I always think it unfair that the biological children lose out financially when their dad moves in with someone elses children but that's the way the CSA works.

Just ask, OP. I think you are feeling scared and like you're not worth it somehow but if he is a good guy and loves you he will see you as contributing equally to the partnership and not feel you should have to pay for everything. I worry a lot of women go into cohabiting like this, somehow feeling guilty or worried you will look like a gold digger, when in fact it is absolutely rational that you should share any new costs incurred by moving in together/ to a bigger house. "Taking on your kids" shouldnt be a big ask either assuming he loves you and your kids are not absolute monsters! Given he is a parent too he should understand you come as a package. Hope it all works out. Just be sensible and don't over stretch yourself and talk talk talk about everything. "How should we split x? Can we afford y? Shall we set up a joint account/ kitty for z?" etc. Mutual trust should come in time xx

chipping what difference does it make if OP is/was the ow?

Not a sarcastic question btw, just curious.

I'm afraid I have no new advice for you OP. Agree you need to sit down with dp and talk it out.

Good luck though. I hope you work it out. You sound nice and your dp seems like a good egg also.

If you are expecting some free childcare hours next year I'm guessing your younger one is about 2.5? (I have a similar aged dd.)

So two things:-

1. There is no way your ex will get residence of your 2 year old that he has no relationship with so get yourself back to the CSA. That is money from someone who should be supporting your child.
2. You childcare costs will go down in the next couple of years with the free hours and starting school. So either, you live together and cope with having no money for the next couple of years or you wait until your youngest starts school and then live together.

Childcare vouchers get you £243 a month tax free. It may be worth investigating if your dp can get too - I'm not sure what the definition of step parent is but you may be able to.

As far as I can see a big part of the problem is that your DCs fathers are not paying towards their upbringing.

I agree that housing costs are crazy high but the welfare system shouldn't be there to help people get a mortgage.

I hope you work it out OP, you sound a reasonable person, although the sniping at your partner's ex is not becoming.

I agree with Meringue33 and shrimponastick. If you are going to be living with this man, it needs to be on a partnership basis, viewing all of your dc as children of the marriage/relationship. That is how things are seen in the law and how the benefits/tax credits support system is worked out. In the eyes of tax credits, the biological origins of the children are irrelevant, it is the household income that matters. So that is how you need to work things out.

If you were married to this man and had his dc, and you were earning a lower wage than him, you would still expect to pool resources and share equally from his salary, so that should continue to be the case regardless of where the dc came from. It's a committed relationship; you should be able to depend on each other and not insist on being financially independent. What would happen if you fell pg with your DP's child, or fell ill and couldn't work, or your dc was ill and you had to stop work to care for them? Would your DP still insist that you paid your share?

It doesn't sound like you and your DP are really seeing your relationship as a partnership, more like two single parents under the same roof, but that sort of arrangement can't exist if you're depending on state support.

All of our kids are fine and well catered for as things stand, no one will lose out they are our number one priority. If living together in a bigger house is out of the question then so be it. I can't do what I can't afford, I will look at working longer hours childcare vouchers and what he can afford ro contribute without taking from his kids. He is a good man and that is why I want to be with him but no one is going hungry for it! A smaller house is out of the question, I would rather stay where I am than pay through the nose for something leas than adequate so we will just have to have a good old think on the situation.

I just wrote a really long post and it's vanished?! Very odd.

Trudat - I read the whole thread. I wrote a post and deleted it, I wrote another and deleted that - then decided that for me to answer it did rather depend on whether the OP was the OW & was a party to his relationship breaking up. I don't think his children should miss out on things he could have otherwise provided for them, but his ex wife... it rather depends for me. I also wondered if it was a contributing factor to the OP's thought process of keeping things quite separate. However, Ladyjadey doesn't seem to want to discuss it any more, which is her perogative given it's her thread :) I just didn't want to not answer your question.

I am not the other woman, he had been separated for almost a year when we met. I have very strong feelings on that particular subject as the father of my eldest left me for my next door neighbor. I would never in a million years get involved with a married man and I cannot condone cheating, I know the hurt it causes.

Why do you feel so grateful that he's 'taking you on'? He should feel as as lucky to have you, as you do him, otherwise it's not a very good start to a life together is it?

My eldest dd father pays for her, the otherdoes not. I think I am a reasonable person, I think I am sometimes naive, sometimes I say things I shouldn't. I know I'm not perfect and I give myself a bloody hard time that I go to work study iron cook and clean but don't have time to bake for the School fair with the girls and that I'm always so busy that I feel like I wish their lives away as it will be easier when they are older. I just want them to have a stable, happy life with role models that do not change once a month and for them to know they are loved. And if I sound a little testy towards his x its because she has tried yo stop him seeing them because I'm not good enough for him because I didn't go yo private school and she has insulted my children and me because we are not a typical family. Frankly I don't give a rats ass what she does or doesnt do but when I see him broken hearted because she is taking them away at Christmas without consulting him or that they get sent to daddy with clothes that don't fit so he buys them new ones and she takes them back, that gets to me.

Ultimately, as I see it, he can do as he pleases. I have less freedom because I have two young kids at home, he does not need to live with me, will not benefit financially, will get a harder time and more resistance from x wife about having his kids. He will have more work to do, less money, a more untidy house, no peace and quiet and all the rest! I am useful to a degree but I'm sure hookers are cheaper!!

What does he 'please' though? Does he really want this, does he tell you he loves you, loves your kids? Does he say he can't wait until you can live together? Does he want to wake up with you every morning? Will he make this work whatever it takes because it's what he wants... OR is this just a 'life would be easier if we lived together'?

If either one of you doesn't really really really want this - then don't do it - financial stuff aside.

I can understand why you feel like that about his ex.

Why does he overpay what they agreed?

Why does he pay so much if he feels half of it goes on handbags and shoes for her? (or is that just you being pissed off?).

I am useful to a degree but I'm sure hookers are cheaper!

I really think you should hold off moving in with someone if you are so convinced of your inferiority. You sound like you feel you are not good enough for him

That last was a joke, I know he values ourrelationship and me, why else would he want to live with me? My problem is I have spent too long on my own and have been
let down in the past so I find it hard being with a man who is actually decent for a change and I don't want ti feel I'm taking advantage of him, the being viewed as a gold digger comment nailed it actually, that worries me. I know it shouldnt but we all have hang ups.
He overpays because he wants to feel he is doing the best he can for his kids, he knows she wastes the money but if he can't be with them all the time that is the best he can Do for them. He knows they might not see while they are young how much he cares but wants them to know when they are older that he always tried his best. I wish more dads were like him and I'm lucky that my kids will get him too.

The system is a bit mad sometimes.

I did a calculation the other day based on me leaving DH. Due to his low contributions to family finances and our high childcare costs I would actually have more money if I moved out

lady - agree with others that you're selling yourself short, and should give that some thought before you embark on this new stage in what sounds like a very promising relationship.

It strikes me that you are seeing DP as a single man with no ties who can "come and go as he pleases", and yet if his life had panned out as he presumably expected, he would be a dad with 2 kids in his home full time. He's got just as much baggage as you, the way I see it.

Good luck figuring it out - communication is the key, as always.

Ladyjadey

You have'nt as yet, said anything about what your exh/exp pays in maintenance to you , if anything. You also say your dp can sell a mortgage free house. If this is the case, rather than buy a house together, can you and your 2 DC's go and live with him and his DC's in that house . Or does the ex have a say in it? How old are your DC's ie how long do you still have to pay for childcare ? I don't think this is a case of being wealthy or not, it is a case of using your money well, like all the other parents and grandparents who housed, clothed , fed and educated generations of children on just one wage.

I mentioned earlier that I get £39 a week for dd1 I get nothing for dd2. They are 6 and 2. We have looked in to living in his 3 bed semi but no way we can fit 6 of us in. Although his 2 won't live with us they will stay at least 2 nights a week. He has a bit and a girl so ds would need own room and there isn't enough space for 3 girlstto share. Also they are all under 6, one bathroom and toilet just isn't enough! We have looked at extending his or loft conversion but for the cost it would not make sense financially, we would never see the money back in a future sale so its cheaper and more sensible to buy a house already big enough. Ideally we would like a house with enough space that we could stay long term and not have to nice again in a few years when we will likely be better off, I hope to be promoted un the next few years and childcare should reduce. Dp has wealthy parents who are prepared ro help us with some of the cost towards a new house which is great but I don't want to take advantage of them too much, would rather see what we can manage on our own

Personally, I don't see why, for two nights a week the kids can't share. It's only two to a room - lots of kids share like that permanently. They are all under 6, it doesn't matter one tiny bit that one of them is a boy and wont for a good few years. Lots of families only have one bathroom. You can move when you are 'better off' - honestly, you want to run before you can walk and wonder why the state wont help you fund it?! More importantly, if you loved each other enough and wanted to be together enough, none of this would matter so therefore I think it's not a good idea to move in together anyway. Just my 2p for what it's worth.

Chipping i don't think it's a bad thing to think about practicalities of 4 dc in a 3 bed house, it might just not be possible.

Lady I do wonder about extending your DPs house. It might be worth getting some estimates.

It's almost always cheaper to extend then to move. When moving you have to factor in estate costs for Dps house, legal bills, then stamp duty for the new house and surveys etc which usually ends up being a huge amount. An extension would mean probably not much more, which would mean just borrowing that small amount for a mortgage. So the monthly payments would be far more manageable.

QLB - of course it's possible, lots of people live that way 24/7, they are only going to have 4 kids 2 nights a week.

We looked into the extension and had an architect involved, It won't be possible without significant structural work to the rest of the house making it not viable. The house is not big enough for the 4. On the rare occasions we stay all together the eldest two share a bed and youngest sleeps in a travel cot. That is not sustainable for any length of time.