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Are there any lovely mumsnetters experienced in the world of PROPERTY LAW?

14 replies

2Happy · 27/03/2006 16:55

dh and I bought a house just over a year ago, it was a 2-bed farm cottage that the previous owner had the loft converted of. In order to fit stairs in, he had a small extension built out the back, which then runs down the side of the house so now contains a bit of hall, kitchen and study. All fine and dandy so far.
The previous owner also put up a scrappy lean to, which dh and I decided we would like to have built a bit better to put the washing machine in as the kitchen is the size of a handkerchief.
Then I looked at the deeds.
The previous owner's lean-to, and the whole of the back of the extension is built over land that, in the deeds, is access land for the next door cottage Sad
I contacted the solicitor who did the house sale. He said I should get a letter from next door saying that the extension doesn't block access to the back of their property (it doesn't). But next door is a miserable misogynistic b*tard who is as likely to do that as he is to start a snowball fight in hell.
What I'd like to ask anyone who knows about property law is: is my solicitor bound to sort this mess out - after all he didn't spot the problem when doing the initial house sales work. And if we did just get a letter, is that enough? Would it cause problems in the future if we were to sell our house after next door had perhaps already moved on (his house was on the market, though was then taken off again)? Should I start stomping my foot at the solicitor?
Sorry it's such a long post Blush

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Freckle · 27/03/2006 17:09

Solicitor error, it would appear. Very good of him to put the onus on you to sort it out. I would start stomping. In a worse case scenario, you could be obliged to remove the whole of the lean-to and extension, which would not only cost you money but devalue the property as a whole, if these are built on land which doesn't belong to you.

When you say access land, is it your land over which your neighbour has access? Or is it land which he uses to access his property but which doesn't belong to you?

If it is your land and he can still access his property without problem, then you may be OK.

fairyjay · 27/03/2006 17:20

How long has the lean to been there?

LIZS · 27/03/2006 17:28

I would have thought the solicitor should have picked up the right of access even if it is not currently used. Is there any written agreement to it among the deeds ? Definitely up to him to sort it out, threaten to make a complaint to the Partner or the Law Society.

2Happy · 27/03/2006 17:34

Ooh crikey! You were all quick! Thank you very much Smile Smile

The house used to be a farm cottage, but when it was sold as a private house, the deeds stipulated that next door were to be allowed access to the back of their house via the land at the back of ours. In reality, they use this right only to fill up their gas tank, and that access isn't prevented in any way by the extension. But the land they walk across is ours.
I'm not sure exactly how long the lean to has been there for, but I think a couple of years.
Stomping indicated then? My fear is that this could affect us ever wanting to sell the house in the future, as, theoretically could next door insist the extension was demolished - which would mean there's be no way to get up stairs! Eek.

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Freckle · 27/03/2006 17:40

If it is your land, then it is unlikely they could insist the extension is demolished as it is not impeding their access. However, I would insist that the solicitor clear up any confusion so that any future sale is not affected by the issue. At the very least, the solicitor should indemnify you against any potential loss.

CountessDracula · 27/03/2006 17:42

Sounds like a solicitor's negligence claim to me!

Presumably him next door doesn't realise

2Happy · 27/03/2006 17:55

I'm presuming him next door doesn't know, but don't want to ask him in case it alerts him to the fact and he kicks up trouble IYSWIM. My mother said we should just build anyway and hope he doesn't find out, but since his house has already been on the market once before and I know he wants to move, this seems pretty risky to me. A new neighbour's solicitor might be slightly more on the ball than ours was. Plus, since I've already written to the solicitor once, it's not like I can claim ignorance now is it?

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LIZS · 27/03/2006 18:07

You might not get pp to extend anyway if there were a dispute so definitely best to resolve it now. May be his right has lapsed due to disuse over a period of time or you could have a new agreement to use the alternative access but the solicitor needs to sort it out with the minimum of fuss !

2Happy · 27/03/2006 18:16

Honestly. It's a good thing the previous owner has emigrated, because if I ever caught hold of him! He tried rewiring the house, and our electrician said he hadn't seen such a terrible job in over 20 years. The entire house was live, and even if it wasn't he hadn't earthed the bathrooms, and half of the house he hadn't rewired, just left the ancient rubber wires in place, and the electrician had to put holes in most of the walls to get at them. We just stripped wallpaper in the coridoor yesterday to find two holes above the bedroom doors that he'd just stretched wallpaper over instead of filling. And he built an extension over access land. And other stuff I won't bore you with. Pillock doesn't even come close. Angry
But the solicitor missing this doesn't help at all. Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it. The solicitor was sounding as if this was some minor glitch and I was wondering if I was overreacting...

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Freckle · 28/03/2006 09:16

Spoke to dh last night about this (commercial solicitor) and he said that any area designated as having access rights over it should not be built on at all. Your neighbour would be within his rights to demand that you remove any structure built on land over which he has access. It is irrelevant that the structure does not impede his access.

You will need to get a Deed of Release from your neighbour, who could, if he chooses, demand some form of consideration (for which read money!). If it does cost you, then you should look to your solicitor to recompense you, depending on whether it was obvious from the papers the solicitor had that the extension was built on access land.

UCM · 28/03/2006 10:01

Freckle is right, if access to his property has been impinged upon then you would either have to agree that he is ok about it and pay to have the deeds altered. Or, worst case scenario sue your brief and right the wrong IYSWIM

A friend of mine built a house recently and built part of the left wall on a shared drive, it was 5 inches but they had to get the lady of the next door property to agree that she would allow it then pay to have the deeds changed. I know this is slightly different but it can be done. They gave her some money as well.

Yours is loads more serious and I think I would seek legal advice.

Freckle · 28/03/2006 10:02

If seeking legal advice, suggest use different solicitors from those who did the original conveyancing Wink.

UCM · 28/03/2006 10:42
Smile
2Happy · 30/03/2006 15:17

I'm so sorry, I've been offline for a few days (house being painted so moved into parent's for a bit. I'm now wondering about the wisdom of painting a house that my neighbour might insist is demolished...Sad Melodramatic? Me? Wink).
The original solicitor still has the deeds, but I've seen them and it's very clearly marked where the access land is. But that's the original deeds, before the extension was built, so they don't show that an extension has been built over part of the access land. The solicitor has not seen the property itself (didn't visit when the sale was going through), but there were documents pertaining to the house alterations, so should he have checked that the alterations were legit by visiting? It's a bit harsh on him - he took over the case after his colleague went on long term sick, so maybe he'd argue that he assumed she'd checked. But I'll be pretty Angry if we end up having to foot the bill for a deed of release. My major problem is the neighbour is a complete tw@t. If I raise the subject with him, I run the risk of him refusing to give Deed of Release out of sheer bloody mindedness. We were hoping he'd sell his house soon, and we could keep quiet and hope that the next owners were more sane; but so far no sale, and it looks as if the house is actually off the market now.
Oh God. I just don't know what to do. It has to get sorted or we'll never be able to sell this house in the future. I hate confrontation, but really feel the solicitors have messed up - I think the suggestion to get impartial legal advice is a good one. I'm just so scared that we're in a no-win situation - say nothing, and we can't build a little extension to house the washing machine (not the biggest disaster in the world), but we may also have problems trying to sell the house in the future; or say something, and risk idiotface next door (who doesn't so far realise there's a problem) demanding the old extension is knocked down which would mean we'd have no kitchen and no staircase so no way to get upstairs.
Clearly the only solution is to win the lottery and buy next door... Sad

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