inlaws and wills

[mosquitonet]

I need some views on this please

Dh and I have recently been told by my mother and father-in-law that their will leaves all their estate to my husband (their only child). In the event of his death, a specific clause in their will says their estate goes to our children, but not to me.

My husband queried this with his parents, asking what happens to me if he dies? Their estate is quite considerable - much more than dh and I have. His parents said that they want their money to pass down to their grandsons eventually and not leave the family. If they make me, as an inlaw, a beneficiary of their will, then if I left my dh their money might go outside the family if I had a new partner.

I can see all this, and know it makes sound financial and legal sense, but on a purely emotional level I am less sure how I feel about it.

Both my parents are dead, and my smallish inheritance from them has been used on the purchase of our house (in joint names, not mine) and on other joint things. I have no other money coming to me and not much of a pension either. My inlaws know all this.

They say I am part of the familiy - their family, but I feel that their wishes as stated go against this. Taken to extremes, I feel I am important only as the wife of their son and the mother of their grandchildren - they are not concerned for my future wellbeing in my own right. But perhaps I am reading too much into this?

I am not intending to leave my husband - ever and sincerely hope that he never leaves me, but now we both know how the will stands, he is in a much stronger financial position. And I worry that this might affect our relationship now.

Any thoughts?

PS I believe that if my inlaws die before dh and I, and dh then inherits their estate, it then becomes part of the estate of dh and I, so we have an equal right to it.

I can see that they wish to ensure that you use their money for the benefit of their grandchildren, rather than fritter it away. Or But it is slightly insulting that they trust that your dh will be wise with an inheritance, but that you would not.

Could you suggest that they set up a trust in case dh dies before them, with the money going to your kids on yoru death, but with you able to spend it during your lifetime? This would get round their issue of you leaving their money outside "their" family if you go on to have a new partner and possible more kids?

But IF they leave it to dh and then he dies before you surely it's part of the joint marital assets and they don't have a say?

I think if they want to ensure it all goes to their grandchildren eventually, it doesn't sound like they've achieved it. Your dh could presumably leave it to whoever he chooses once he's inherited.

Tbh I wouldn't expect to be a beneficiary of my FIL or MIL's wills - I'd expect them to leave something to dp and then he could do what he wanted with it - but they are both less well off than we are and I can imagine the upset it would cause in your situation.

How does your dh see the situation?

I think it's v bad news too that they consider their grandchildren their family but you, as their mother, not! If your dh were to die leaving you alone it would benefit THEIR grandchildren greatly if you were provided for. Tbh, I think they're being hugely unreasonable. Hugely. I'd be VERY Offended if dh's parents did this. And the wellbeing of their grandchilden depends on yours, can't they see that? If dh were to die AND they die too surely they'd want you to meet someone else, be happy etc?

WWW, that only happens if Mosquitonet's dh doesn't make a will.

Feel sure though that if they leave it all to dh, it becomes joint marital assets and they have no say whatsoever. It's like the ex husband who won't pay maintenance to the mother of his children because he sees it benefits her adn not them. wtf, they're inextricably linked ffs!

you have my sympathies mosquitonet.

I have gone through similar with my inlaws. My MIL asked my dh how he had worded his will - had he left everything to me or the children (dh is an only child too). Basically she said if he's left everything to me then she would bypass him and leave to our children. I was completely mortified that she could be so hateful and disregard my position within the family especially, like you, my parents are deceased and my inheritence has gone into the family pot already. They live in Spain and so upon researching spanish wills i think i can glean that a certain proportion has to be left to the children of their marriage (ie. my dh) in any event and basically she's just causing shit.

It bevomes joint marital assets for the purposes of divorce as www says, but not at death - a spouse can leave assets held solely in their name to anyone they like.

so my inlaws are giving my husband a lot of financial power then, even when they die my dh still has the power to decide whom this money is left to? Incidently, I have been the main breadwinner for most of the many years we have been together.

I am reading all comments btw, and interested to see what's said. So far I have learned that my dh and I must make a will as a matter of urgency, especially from my point of view.

I think your in laws could have put their point across in a nicer way, but I can see their point of view. It's their money and they want it to go to their grandchildren, it's unlikely to happen but what if your dh had died and you had remarried but died leaving everything to your new husband on the understanding that he would pass it on do your children (or if you died without a will and most of it went to your new dh). If your new dh then died intestate then your children would have not right to the inheritance as they are not his children IYSWIM. It's possible that they are not suggesting that you don't have your children's best interests at heart, but rather that future events may conspire to prevent your children from getting the money if it's left to you.

I think Prufrocks suggestion of a trust is a good one, especially as there will only one lot of IHT to be paid on it then (if it goes to your dh and then to the kids there will be 2 lots to pay).

well, like I said I don't think it's that unusual for people to leave their estate to their own children rather than jointly to their DIL/SonIL, and to expect it to be passed on to the grandchildren.

They have handled it v tactlessly IMO though.

And you could imagine a situation where a marriage breaks down and the son decides to leave the inheritance to a second wife or whoever instead of passing it on to the grandchildren.

And that kind of financial imbalance is horrible in a marriage. I am finding it pretty difficult that dp is the breadwinner and I've got no income or savings of my own - I'm a SAHM and chose that option myself, but it still grates .

I would deffo make wills asap though - I think everyone should.

Once they die, all their assets pass to your dh. Then if you were to divorce, they would be counted as marital assets and split as per the judges decision regardless of whose name they were in. If you persuade your dh to use them to pay off the mortgage on a house which is in joint names, or put the money into a bank account or other assets in joint names, then upon his death the assets revert to the other name - ie you. but as with any other assets that are in dh's (or your) sole name upon your death, they are counted as part of your individual estate and left as per the instructions in your will. If you die without a will, then the first £250,000 or thereabouts of individual assets will go to you, and everything else is split according to inestacy laws, which means some would go to your children and then possibly other relatives.

ooh yes, it is more complicated than I remembered.

Here is a summary of \link{http://www.direct.gov.uk/RightsAndResponsibilities/Death/WhatToDoAfterADeath/WhatToDoAfterADeathArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=10029802&chk=fPI7BD\what happens when you die intestate (without a will)}

Didn't someone on here have an issue about wills where they expected to get something, as was promised bya grandparent or something, but because there was a divorce in the family, she ended up with nothing and the 2nd wife got everything that should have gone to her IYKWIOM.

So I would put myself in my kids shoes, what if, just supposing your dh died and left it all to you. You then remarried, and died without making a will. All your assets would go to your 2nd husband and possibly your kids would get nothing (if your 2nd husband decided NOT to pass it to them) Does that make sense? I feel all your in-laws are trying to do is to ensure their grandkids inherit, rather than you. Where is your porblem?

I can see why you maybe upset, BUT make a will NOW it is vital you do that. I cannot believe anyone with kids has not made a will, it is so important

I would expect my parents to do the same, to be honest, except that as my father is an accountant he will do it in a tax efficient way and ensure that the bulk of the estate is left in trust to his grandchildren. I know that they have also made special provision for my eldest sister as she has disabled children who will need supporting for all their lives. As a grown up I feel that my parents have already helped me out hugely, and I don't feel "entitled" to their money really. It's just nice to know that my children will have something to help them get started in life. But then, that's what my father set up for my grandparent's wills, so I guess I have already benefited (support for university, deposit etc). I can understand mosquitonet's concerns, and think her ILs weren't very tactful (although it's probably better to know these things in advance, rather than having a nasty surprise), but on the other hand I know that my parents love their children more than their ILs, and now I have children I can understand why. The other factor is how old the ILs are - to be crude, when you expect them to die, and how old the grandchildren are - ie when might they need money. Then again the only problems arise if mosquitonet does leave her dh, in which case it's probably not unreasonable for her ILs to wish not to give her money; or if her dh dies before her ILs, in which case her ILs might change the will anyway. I think that wills just are emotional stuff! Money is the route of all arguments...

interesting points of view. I am really glad I posed the question. It has shown me why dh and I must get a will as inheriting from your legal spouse is not as straighforward as I thought. I assumed marriage protected you more.

dh is really keen for us to make a will asap - he has raised the subject before and we had a good talk about it yesterday evening. He wants everyone protected, me as well as the children. I feel absolutely ok about dh and his intentions.

I just can't get rid of this feeling, though, that my MIL and PIL see me as a less necessary part of their family - almost expendable, there to ensure dh and the children are safe and happy, but my own safety and happiness is not such an issue.

When we had these conversations, dh and I were talked to separately by them, and when I had my 'talk' with them, it was all grandchild focussed. If dh met another woman, was swept off his feet and divorced me, I could face a very uncertain financial future. My inlaws must realise this as they have been so thorough about getting their wills in order and looking ahead. When we had our talk they could so easily have said something a bit more reassuring to me. They must know I have put all my money, earned and inherited into the 'family'. So in answer to crunchies question 'what's your problem?' that's muy problem.

I can totally see the logic, I can see why they would want to protect their grandchildren. They did say it would be a very good idea for dh and I to make our will. But again it came across that they wanted dh to ensure HE had chosen who should benefit from their estate after he dies - not anything about dh choosing to protect me. They could have said more, couldn't they?

To add more context to this, dh has left me twice before (years ago pre children). All water under the bridge, and dh is very loving and loyal now, but you can never say never, can you? Also, dh and I are planning on moving nearer our inlaws (they want this too). This means I will give up my present job, and probably end up with a lower powered job, salary cut and fewer job prospects, so I will be in a more vulnerable position anyway. My dh, on the other hand, is likely to get a better paid job when we move, with more job prospects. I totally at ease with these plans, but alarmed that my inlaws have IMO chosen to ignore my vulnerability.

They do sound pretty controlling. The whole separate "talk" sounds pretty weird IMO.

Do you get on ok with your PILs otherwise?

OK Mosquitonet, I see that I missed you put your 'inheritance' into the family. Therefore I can see why this might piss you off a bit. But personally I am quite sure my in-laws see me as less a part of teh family than their own children. I would not expect any jewellery/money if they die, just as my DH would not expect money if my parents die. I am totally sure in my parents will most of teh money will be left to my kids, not me and my DH. But your in-laws are leaving the money to your dh, he could give you some of that money, it doesn't mean he cannot spend it on the 'family' or on you, it just means if he then dies,, yuour kids will inherit rather than you. Their will doesn't say he cannot spend his inheritance does it?

However I still feel it is not up to you where your in-laws are choosing to leave their money AND you are stressing yourself out needlesly.

crunchie, its very interesting to hear your views as they probably resemble the views of my inlaws. I do get on with them very well btw.

I know logically they are doing the correct thing and who am I to argue that they should not put their grandchildren first? But emotionally, I don't feel so happy about it.

You say that you are sure your inlaws see you as less a part of the family than their own children, but then again, your own parents are still alive. Imagine that your parents were both dead, and you had no close family on your side at all. Would you then be comfortable feeling your inlaws did not accept you so openly into their half of the family?

I can totally see your point, honestly I can. And I probably would feel different if my parents were not aorund

Have just been thru a similar situation. My dad died eight years ago, my Gran who recently died then changed her will so that me & my sister got everything between us. My mum was quite offended as she'd been my Grans daughter in law for 35 years and probably did more for her than anyone but my Gran's reasoning was that she knew my mum had benefited from my dad's insurance policies and was financially ok. I think my mum thought even a token gift would have been nice.

why not just simply bypass your dh and then leave it to teh kids anyway? Could you possibly suggest this? In which case you may or may not feel quite so necessary to save/ensure your kids are well provided for and go without yourselves now when you probably need all the money you can get?

i agree with jampots

Whilst I can understand mosquitonet's hurt feelings, I have to say I don't think that my husband's relationship with my mother has improved since his mother died. But family relationships vary hugely, and if in general she feels like a real part of their family, I can see why she feels upset by this - although maybe it's the way they did it that hurt most? Unfortunately there is very little that she can do about their will. I do think that a trust would be a better option for the grandchildren. That way the children cannot access funds before an agreed age, but funds can be used to support them, should mosquitonet and/or her dh die (bit morbid - sorry!). The other thing that you should think about if making a will, is agree guardianship arrangement for children.

Thanks for our advice nooka. dh and I have been talking about guardianship, too. We have to get that sorted out as well as our will. We will look into trusts for the children, too. However, as dh's parents have thought long and hard about their will, and talked to a solicitor about it, and then decided against a trust, I guess we must respect their wishes.

Lots of your responses to my situation seem less emotional than mine. I have found that quite surprising tbh. I know that by writing our will, dh can ensure I as well as our children are protected in the event of his death. But that's only half the story.

If dh dies while his parents are still alive, and I am left a widow, I would find it very hard to make ends meet. If dh left me for someone else but the children remained living with me, I would get maintenance from him I guess, but I would not have much of a pension to look forward to.

In either case I would be totally dependent on dh's parents changing their will to help give a secure future first to their grandchildren and secondly to me. And I do feel I deserve this security, too. I have given everything I have to the family pot, inheritance and salary. I have worked hard for most of my married life and supported dh through lots of rough patches. In order to keep us financially afloat I have not been able to save much as a pension for myself. Dh's parents know all this. I am not saying dh's parents would not help out, btw, but I am conscious that they have IMO deliberately left things open. I am having to fight hard against feeling my efforts are not valued enough.