I really don't know what we do with our money...

[EnergyStar]

I've just done that breadline calculator thing and apparently our household income is in the top 20%.

Now, I know we're a long way off poor, but that came as a big surprise. I don't think we're extravagant (although I know we do have things many people have to consider luxuries) but we just about break even each month despite:

• having no debt apart from a very small mortgage (on a largish house, so possibly higher than average energy bills etc)
• No smoking and drink only one bottle of wine between us per week
• One week's holiday in the UK pa
• Very ordinary oldish cars (admittedly two)
• None of us have any interest in expensive clothes or gadgets
• We eat out approx 6 times a year

The children do have a number of activities that add up, but nothing outrageous, max cost per session is £3.50 and DH's fares for work are approx £6k pa which makes a big difference, but I see loads of people who appear to enjoy much more expensive lifestyles than us, even though apparently few people earn more than we do.

Luxuries we do have are season tickets at the local (League 2) football club and membership at the cheap council run gym/swimming complex.

Don't get me wrong I'm not feeling sorry for myself , but I do wonder
what on earth we're doing wrong?

I often wondered this. My conclusions are...it costs a lot to run and insure and tax and service 1 car never mind 2, whether they are old or not. The cost of food, gas, electricity, water, council tax, house insurance, phone (landline incl broadband) and mobiles.
That is in addition to clothes, whether or not you are extravagant, esp children who grow at a ridiculous rate. And even a couple of extra curricular activities a week add up. Birthday and Christmas presents.
That's where ours goes. Ah well.

...others might have higher mortgages, debts, no heating in winter, only eat beans...

how many kids do you have? If it's 3 or over, everything really will add up and all bills will be higher etc.

We do all that (except for the fares) and have 3 kids. Our income came out as 7% were poorer than us.

Go through your bills are check them off. Same with your food bills. See if there's anything you're overpaying. Do you need 2 cars if dh uses the train for work?

We have 2 DC and no we don't need 2 cars, but if we're in the top 20% income bracket, it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect that we might be able to afford them. The second one is a small economical one with very low tax and insurance costs.

I suspect it's because we're in the South East, I doubt we're in the top 20% of earners locally.

You did put in post tax income on the calculator didn't you? I nearly got caught out when I did it .

Probably the South East factor. We aren't in a very cheap area for the NW but compared to down south we are paying peanuts.

There are so many variables - for example you have a small mortgage but some of your friends may be mortgage free. You may have an expensive deal on your utilities - have you checked with something like uswitch to see if you can save a bit? Some of your friends may have huge debts and credit cards whereas you're living sensibly.

We go out to eat fairly often but no car for example

If you're brave, keep track of every penny incoming + outgoing for a month & post the results here (?name change!). Your whole life will be disected but you'll soon realise what economies others make that you don't.
Here are common ways that I notice others fritter their money away (but they don't see it as Frittering, they see it as well-earned comforts; I like my comforts, too):

• Buying clothes elsewhere than jumble sales & charity shops (lots of problems with only sourcing clothes from such places, obviously)
• Buying & owning what you like, truly we all have too much Stuff
• Overspending at Xmas, birthdays
• Sky Telly
• XBox subs
• magazine & newspaper habits (I enjoy, too)
• poor insulation their homes leading to higher bills, keeping indoor temps high
• wasting food
• usually driving for short local journeys
• second car when they could comfortably get by without (I want a 2nd car)
• pets (we have pets)
• using mobiles instead of landline (landline calls are incredibly cheap)

Do you have pension plans? Are you in debt? If not, I wouldn't worry, money is there to enjoy.

I find most of ours goes in commuting into London costs. . Our travelcards (x2) are roughly equal to our mortgage which in turn is roughly equal to our child care costs. So in the words of the Great Suprendo 'Piff Poff Poof' and it's gone! :(. One of these days we will be able to start saving.

I know where you're coming from - I also know intellectually that I'm much better off than most people but I don't feel it. This is normal because we generally all identify and associate ourselves with people who are at about the same wealth level (or slightly higher than us) and so we all think of ourselves as normal. Effectively - those "people you see who are richer" are the people you notice, and the people less well off, you aren't noticing so much because you don't aspire to be like them.

Part of it will be just not realising quite how many people massively poorer than us there are in the country. For every "nice" area filled with comfortably-off people that you know about, there are many many times more sprawling areas of poorer people having to live a much lower standard of living.

From the things you mention, kids activities are probably more significant than you think - in middle-income families they might stretch to a maximum of one a week, in the poorest none at all unless free.
There are a lot of other things that we get used to and don't think of as "luxuries" but actually are not things that everyone can afford:

• being able to go shopping and buy everything you need without having to choose whether to afford thing A or thing B
• being able to shop in "nicer" stores and have the freedom to choose an item on grounds of quality rather than the lowest price
• being able to buy new clothes that are good quality rather than restricting yourself only to items that you can find for less than £5 in ASDA/budget stores/charity shops
• Having a computer at home with a broadband connection
• Being able to put any income at all into savings
• Being able to replace items of domestic equipment when they break
• Having a sensible level of insurance
• Spending on birthdays, christmas, other special days like mothering sunday, anniversaries etc.
• Regular hairdressers appointments

I'm sure there are more!

Gosh, well said HeadsShoulders... You are quite right.
I just begrudge given a train company what is effectively a mortgage a month.

I would also recommend you go the route of keeping an accurate spending diary and working out exactly where your money goes each month. I use some free software which enables me to categorise all expenses and run reports.

Don't forget that the 'top 20%' of any normal distribution curve will be a pretty broad church. Using that Guardian calculator a family of 2 adults and 2 children with a net income of £31,000 (£43,000 gross) is in the centre 50% and £49,000 (£73,000 gross) is in the top 20%. £30,000 is not an enormous difference really. Same size family has to reach £65,000/year (£100,000 gross) to be in the top 10%, £90,000/year (£150,000 gross) to be in the top 5% and a whopping £190,000 net (£360,000 gross) to be in the top 1%

Oooo. Where's the calculator? I know where ours allll goes (am looking at him now...)

Keep a spending diary. A friend of mine did this and discovered she was spending £700 a year at Starbucks.

I used to earn double what I do know but had no money.

Then I started to shop at Aldi, the pound shops, home bargains, savers, ebay, taking a packed lunch to work, picnics for days out, flasks of tea, bottle of water always in the car. It's amazing what the £1 shops sell, Lindt chocolates and Duchy of Cornwall jams and marmalades!

I looked on money saving experts website and looked at the budget ranges for asda and sainsbury and started using what seemed to be good, if I dont like it I can always take it back and not buy it again.

I joined quidco and check everything I need isnt available there before I buy anything. I even got cash back on the cats flea stuff and dressings I needed for work.

I even put tap inserts into the taps which I got free off my water providers website, they save me £20 a year for doing 5 minutes of diy. I've just ordered some for this house too and a hippo water saver for the downstairs loo. I figure even £20 is better than nothing. You wouldnt turn it down if someone was offering free £20 notes would you?.

I always price compare my car insurance and the house insurance.

I'm not saying I'm a money saving expert or anything like that but little amounts regularly really add up, I worked out at the beginning of the year that if I parked in the 30min free parking or on a side road a 10min walk from the town and always took lunch to work I would be £600 a year better off.

I still wear thermal underwear in the winter so I dont need the heating on as high, DH has his own inbuilt thermals (tummy fat!).10

Keeping a record of what you spend in a week really open your eyes to expenses that are not really essential.

Here's the Guardian Breadline Calculator

YOu've had some good answers on here.
I think that we all have such different ideas of what is 'normal' in terms of spending - be that at the supermarket, of what you give your dcs for pocket money, or what you spend on a haircut, as you will often see on lots of different threads on here. You get used to what you have, and, as someone else said earlier, the vast majority of people will be in the same social circle as people in a similar earning bracket, so it doesn't seem 'extravegant' to be buying magazines each week or coffees from Starbucks or whatever, but there are whole swathes of us people who wouldn't even consider doing that, as it's just not in their expectation. Nowt wrong with it if you have the income, but, without doing a "write down every penny you spend for a month" it's going to be difficult for others - or indeed you - to know where your income is going.

I found food bills have REALLY gone up, and those little £30 top up shops are now more like £50 and easily missed

Food has gone up stacks, so has everything really - utilities, travel... Even the price of a newspaper - don't get me started on mortgage, insurance, petrol, parking, kids clothes, shoes (VAT free, my backside) and comics...