Please define what "poor" is

[Putthatbookdown]

I read somewhere it is haviing less than 60% of average disposable income but I do not know how much that is either

The current definition is 60% of the median household income - £26,000 gross or £20,000 net. About £384/week. A household assumes 2 adults and 2 children.

i don't get why the definition should be based on average incomes. If for some unknown reason everyones income went up (unlikely i know) then the level where 'poor' is defined would go up and vice versa when incomes go down. Shouldn't it be based on what you are able to purchase with your income.

I think there has to be an absolute cut-off number because purchasing power varies depending on region. You regularly hear of people with incomes double those numbers claiming to be 'poor' because they live in the South East, for example.

so this is based on a family of 4 The context I saw it in was in relation to retired needing 60% of disposible income t0 live on or else they are poor

That looks likethe same thing. If the median net (disposable) household income is £20,000 then 60% would be £12,000/year spending money. £1000/month.

Funnily enough this topic is back in the news here today. I'm just listening to IDS explaining that in a recession, when the average income reduces and the 60% bar gets lower, it would be very easy for a government to claim that they have taken people out of poverty when nothing has actually changed. He's got a point.

Our idea of poor is always really poor compared to everyone else.

So now you are generally considered poor if you can't afford to run a car for example (or even 2!). But 50 years ago it would have been less common to to have a car. So our view of poor changes over time. Also, by most definitions a large portion of Africa is poorer than we are. Yet many of them may not consider themselves poor because their expectations are different.

Its also long been recognised (was commented on in social surveys about 1899!) that while there is a minimum amount that a family can live on, often people don't spend their money in the best way - so some people feel they are poor when in fact another family could live off that income OK.

@ vj32 - we can't afford to run a car, but also don't particulary want or need one. People either look at me like I've got two heads or stare blankly when I say we don't have a car. It seems that car ownership is often viewed as a 'necessity' whereas I still view it as a luxury.

Um. I am currently £330 overdrawn, I have £150 left on my overdraft.

I have no credit cards or access to credit facilities.

I 'live' off my housing benefit. My rent is currently two months late and obviously I don't have the money to pay next month's rent.

I keep getting reminder letters from school to pay my daughter's reception Year snack time money - even though it states 'voluntary' - and it's only £6 and she doesn't even eat it anyway (Starfruit?? or other weird looking tropical fruits).

I am listing literally the clothes (dresses) off my back on ebay and selling items of everyday furniture (a sofa, dining table and chairs, etc) to pay for this month's online food shopping order.

EVERYTHING is Value range or reduced orange sticker in my home. Even in Pound Shops where branded goods are, well, a pound!, I still habitually go for the value unbranded goods.

I'm in debt with all utility companies - water, gas, electric.

I don't have a landline, satellite tele, car and am on £10 a month PAYG mobile.

My upstairs carpets are sodden black with rot and silverfish and my landlord won't replace them, so I've pulled them up. Upstairs is bare and mouldy wooden boards instead now. Carpet quote came in cheapest at £499, that's like a lottery win amount to me.

I'm pretty sure I'm poor :(

Challen, you need to go and see the CAB. They will do a benefit check and can help to get the council to speed up your housing benefit claim. They can point you in the right direction of a food bank, and can help you fill in the forms for the social fund so that you can get help with the carpet. Have you tried applying for social housing?

I already have housing benefit, Lady.

I have been on the housing list several years, but live in a 2 bedrooom house myself and two children, so am considered not in need of housing.

I am still paying off a social fund loan for the deposit and rent advance it cost to move me into this house three years ago, so am not entitled to another until it's paid off. Besides, when I applied for that, the person in front of me was bragging about how he was taking his social fund loan straight down to the travel agents after to pay the balance off his summer holiday to Ibiza! Somehow, that abuse of the system deflates me.

I'm resigned to it all really. Feel strangely calm. I am going to be evicted no doubt and will lose my massive deposit and cannot afford to rent again here (village) so daughter will have to be moved out of the village school too. I know I may be offered emergency hostel accommodation for myself and two children, at least.

I have budgeted to within an inch of my life recently. My benefits have all reduced drastically because the utility companies auto-deduct my arrears before I receive benefits and housing benefit has this month been reduced by £100 month wiht new government guidelines, so I have to find £100 month shortfall.

I have looked into working fulltime again, but my son is due to start school next year, and the rent on this house combined with extra childcare costs would leave me with a £360 a month shortfall based on a minimum wage job.

I'm pretty sure I have reached rock bottom. My only way up now is to somehow get credit through loan sharks - but it's not as if they advertise themselves very well! And this is a quiet, respectable, retirement village, they don't need to knock on doors around here :/

No doubt there are thousands of single parents like myself in this situation right now. Myself and children have our health, for now, that's the most important thing.

Anyway, being poor is all relative. Even those in grand houses can struggle to pay their bills I'm sure. Am putting my fiath in karma - I have led an honest and simple life :)

I reckon it's totally subjective. I reckon we're 'poor' compared to a lot of people in our town, but then we're immensly well off compared to a lot of people in other places.

Ah, I've just worked out our weekly income for last month and we're actually doing ridiculously well - but we're still struggling, mainly due to me being a complete prat with credit cards poor decisions made in the past few years...

I think that was an EU survey done, where they cited the absence of things to be an indication of poverty, such as a tv, winter coat, 2 pairs of Shoes etc. I'll try to find it, I know I was picked at random to partake in it and that's how it was explained to me. One indicator alone is not enough to indicate poverty. But they couldn't have a relative poverty # across the EU due to the huge disparity of incomes.

I don't think we are poor, but we don't have a lot of money for when things go wrong as everything is budgeted. So when our microwave exploded, and it ended up costing nearly £200 to replace, it has to come out of (very diminished) savings. Soon the savings will be gone and then the only emergency reserve will be the mortgage overpayment we made years ago - but not sure how we even get this back.

Its hard because it is cheaper to buy everything in bulk, you get big discounts at the supermarkets if you spend £60 or £70 a week but nothing if you go less regularly or spend less.

I think you're poor if you can't afford the things you need for a basic level of comfort.

We scrape and struggle and go into the red every single month, but we have a roof over our heads, enough food, clothes etc, so not poor.

My sister has two girls age 10 an 4 and a husband who earns £45 per hour, my sister works PT at £9 ph She lives in a 3 bedroom house that is mortgaged and she is poor Always struggling for money, her credit cards are maxed out.

I have one daughter aged seven and earn £18,000 a year, I get some TCs. I rent a small house, I have a credit car with £0 balance on it.

Difference is I live off bargains and sales. When I get paid I put money into different accounts, then I can see what I have left

@PJulie - he earns £45 per hour, and they're struggling for money?? Sounds like they're just living way beyond their means. They are not poor by anyone's standards.

no that sounds quite a reasonable amount. It may depend how high the mortgage is.

The way i see it if your'e struggling to meet your utility bills, can't afford a decent pair of shoes, have to rely on the bus, can't afford healthy food or enough food to feed the family...you are not just poor, you are dirt poor.

I am fabulously educated/qualified but the UK has nothing for me. Living in the Uk or rather staying here has made me poor. It is not just about money either. There is no social life /people to meet like me and in fact I have to avoid people as they do not understand good education, culture etc and there is no one to even have a decent conversation with. Overseas people valued me and so I was much richer in so many ways.

I consider myself poor in monetary terms having a shortfall of approx £200 pm im panicking about how to pay the rent in august let alone other bills ..... no one listens no one cares..... but im rich in love for myself and my family/friends .... it really depends on ur individual circumstances i guess x

there is a now old thread in money matters for people who are struggling, which may give people who are really struggling some ideas:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/1508805-Financial-help-for-people-who-are-stuggling-grant-ideas-etc

Hope that some of you find some help, as nothing is more galling than stories of social funds being used to pay for holidays, when there are people who struggle to feed their kids.

I'm so poor it's not funny anymore