Friend with no personal income

[whethergirl]

I'm trying to help a friend who has had to move far out away from family and friends to be with her dp as they had a baby. She is struggling with a sick baby, no support network and a dp that suffers from depression and is at times very controlling. On top of that they never seem to have any money and regulalry can't afford things for the baby.

I just can't get my head around their financial situation and wonder if anyone could shed some light on it. Here are some excerpts from some texts she has sent me:

?He said he?ll give me money 50 for child tax credit, missed out on over 1600 so far!" (By this, I?m presuming that he?s been keeping all the child tax credit).

?I said that I?ll leave if things are the same after the move. DP finds it hard to make 400 for rent now, don?t know how we?re gonna do 600! Council will only pay 165 as he works part time?. I told her as far as I understand, if you only work 16 hours then you are entitled to full housing benefit and working tax credit should be enough to live on. She replied ?He does cash self employed work. Found out today I can?t get anything. Cause of no tax ref from dp. CCCS prob won?t help me now as I can?t tell them why I don?t get any money to pay my debt. Dp?s answer I go bankrupt! And he give me money that I would be getting. But he said that about shopping when we moved in here. But all I?ve got from him is how much he?s spent so far etc. etc. Now since the age of 18 I?m not going to have my own money. I?ll go mad.?

I told her she must be entitled to something! Her reply ?I?m getting child benefit but for others, if I live with dp I can?t apply cause he does cash in hand only work. He doesn?t want to inform them so can?t get anything else. I hate feeling so trapped!?

?He told me he?d give me the money I?d get if I was signing on but not a word about it.?

?Thanks for trying to help, I don?t know who to ask without telling on dp cause of tax reason- nightmare?.

I don't get it. Anyone?

He's trying to force her to commit benefit fraud by witholding money from her by the sounds of things. I think you need to steer her towards women's aid. He sounds very controlling and manipulative.

I still don't understand. What is to stop her from going on income support?

But you are right about him being controlling and maniuplative. He doesn't like anyone going to stay with them (even though she's moved miles out to an area where she has no friends). He's told her she's not very good at coping with being a mum. He even told her he didn't like her going to the local babygroup. And now that she has no money, she can't afford to get on a train to visit friends/family. Yet when she told him she wanted to go home and have a break from him, he begged and cried for her to stay and promised that he would change. But then he didn't.

What you describe is classic emotional bullying behaviour. Isolating the victim from friends, family, depriving the victim of money (money = independence), not allowing them to get a paid job, reducing their self-confidence through continual criticism (she's 'no good at being a mum' ) and... should their victim object to the behaviour and try to leave.... guilt-tripping them into sticking around by turning on the 'I can't live without you' waterworks and promises to change.

In your position I would either buy and send her a train ticket or go over and get her in person. This is one of those very clear cases where she would be far better off... emotionally as well as financially... without her partner.

Didn't answer your original question. Your friend's DP is tax-dodging by doing cash in hand work. If he was bringing home enough to pay the bills and was giving your friend plenty of housekeeping money then maybe you could overlook the illegality. But, as he's bringing home a pittance and keeping her short at the same time, he's obviously keeping anything he gets for himself which is pathetic asv well as illegal. Add the other emotional bullying tactics on top and you've got a pretty nasty package.

They would be entitled, as a couple, to all kinds of state help and you could direct her to this website ... Turn 2 Us Benefits Calculator .... so that she understands just how much she's missing out on. She could also run the same calculation for herself solo. Could give her the confidence she needs to get herself away.

CogitoErgoSometimes - I've told her his behaviour is not right and refuted his his attitude and behaviour, but focusing more on her and what she is entitled to, not wanting to actually tell her to leave him. But think I might have to do the right thing as a friend and be more direct.

What I don't get about her DP tax dodging is how poor they are! Why would he do that when I'm pretty sure they would be better off on benefits? The only thing I can think of is that he is keeping the money for himself, but then surely he would at least get the rent paid without struggling. And also, she said the council do pay £165 towards their rent - and I wonder how that is.

Hopefully I'll get to speak to her today. But maybe all this money stuff is actually less important, maybe I should just focus on her getting away.

Oh, and I've been calling him her dp but now I remember a very rushed registry to appease her family - so he is actually her dh .

A very rushed registry when she found out she was pregnant, I should add.

You'd think a man earning a lot of money would pay the essentials like rent and things for their baby first, wouldn't you? But you'd be amazed how many are quite happy to treat their mates down the pub or spend the afternoon in the bookies and then cry poverty to their partner. After all, that's why Child Benefit is paid to the mother.... it's the best way of ensuring the money is used on the children and not pissed up the proverbial wall.

'Marry in haste, repent at leisure'... No, you probably can't say 'leave him'. Personal relationships are very complex after all. However, you can point out that he's treating her badly, you can point out that she doesn't have to be trapped by him far from home... and you can legitimately offer her a place to stay and get some time-out from him. Sometimes that's what people in her situation need to break the cycle.

Sounds to me like he is saying for her not to apply for benefits cause she would have to declare what he's working too.

If he is working but not giving her money and not paying bills then it is going somewhere; drugs, drink, gambling?

I would suggest there is more than you know going on. What you have heard is the least of it. She needs to get out of there.

Help her work out her other options, after that it is up to her to make the right choices...

I just spoke to her, she seemed quite upbeat so I didn't want to come down too doom and gloom on her, although I did tell her that I posted on a forum and she asked me to read out a few of the answers.

I quoted belledechocchipcookie's post pracitcally word for word, she didn't really respond either way (just "mmmmm") so I didn't push it. I don't want her to ever feel she can't talk or be honest with me.

He is declaring 16 hours paid work. Apparently, now they have moved, they are now getting nearly all their rent paid by housing benefit, although they do have to pay their council tax. They weren't getting full housing benefit before because was still on maternity pay which has now finished.

She/they are not getting any child tax credit - I expect this is because he gets working tax credit?? When she expressed wanting to claim for child tax credit as she is struggling to pay for debts, he told her that child tax credit was supposed to be spent on the child anyway, not on her debts. (Obviously I told her this was absoloute rubbish).

She seems to think she might be entitled to income support? Not sure if this is the case if he is working part time. He told her she couldn't claim for any benefits because of his tax dodging. But I said, he is already declaring it as a part time worker so what difference would it make? She didn't know.

He was still in bed asleep when I spoke to her. Apparently he doesn't go to bed until about 4am, then gets up and goes to work (missing out on spending time with baby ).

The good news is that she is coming up to stay with her mum, hopefully this weekend, for a couple of weeks.

Have done all as you suggest CogitoErgoSometimes, she knows she can always stay here and did so for a brief period when she was pregnant.

LovesBloominChristmas - I just have a feeling there is more to it than what I know. It might just be that he is depressed and emotionally unstable but you know when you get the feeling there is a missing part of the jigsaw?

The part about child tax credit is definitely wrong. You can certainly qualify for CTC and WTC at the same time if your income is low enough. If you don't qualify for WTC you can still potentially qualify for CTC because the thresholds are higher. That's why I posted that link to www.Turn2Us.org.uk . if she puts their income and other details into the Benefits Checker, she'll see for definite what she can claim for (including IS if applicable) and there will even be an estimate of how much the award could be. Then she doesn't have to believe the rubbish he's coming out with.

If she's struggling with debts, you could also suggest that she makes an appointment with one of the free debt advice services like CCCS, National Debtline or CAB. CAB would be particularly useful for her as she could get further help with available benefits.

If the DH in this story really is depressed and emotinally unstable, when she comes to stay, recommend that she gets him to a GP or other help. Depression and instability, if left untreated, can have some very serious consequences - tragic even - for some families.

He needs to be working at least 24 hours a week as a couple with a child or 30 hours a week as a single man to claim working tax credit. Your friend will have signed forms for child tax credit in order for it to be paid, She can't get income support for herself if he is working.

Before you talk to her again take a look at tge woman aid website, it lists questions/points to help people see if they are being abused. Some of them include stopping you seeing family and friends, withholding money, changing what you do/say to avoid conflict. Sorry I can't link am on my phone.

Actually I think the reason she's not claiming child tax credit is because of him tax dodging, and him not wanting to get caught out. But this is what I don't get - she already told me he declares his part time work. And why scam if you're actually going to be worse off?! So he is out working, earning a pittance and forfeiting child tax credit. Doesn't make sense.

I told her about www.Turn2Us.org.uk CogitoErgoSometimes, she is eager to have a look as soon as they get internet connection. She said her local CAB has closed down, and she was already with CCCS, I quote from her text "CCCS prob won?t help me now as I can?t tell them why I don?t get any money to pay my debt." We'll look into to it when I see her, hopefully very soon.

Her DH has had depression for years, I think we've seen the worst of it by now. However she hasn't actually mentioned his depression for a while now.

The other thing about child tax credit, who does it normally get paid to, or is that chosen by the person who fills in the form? Sorry, I'm so clueless. I've always been a lone parent so never had to consider anyone else!

I've seen the Woman's Aid website LovesBloominChristmas and there are traits that resemble her dh. She has always had low self esteem, she's on constant guilt trips and takes no care or pride in herself, ALWAY putting other's before her to an extreme extent. I suppose that's why they found each other.

"And why scam if you're actually going to be worse off?! "

That's the missing piece of the jigsaw. Either he genuinely thinks he will be worse off if he pays the tax and just hasn't done the maths on what benefits are available if he declares the real numbers .... quite possible if someone hasn't bothered to research it. OR... he's not worse off for moonlighting but he's trousering the cash, keeping her short, telling her a load of old rubbish about benefits not being available and spending the money on other things.

According to this DirectGov link Tax credits can be paid to your friend's account, her husband's account or a joint account. If the declared income is low enough for WTC I am certain they will qualify for CTC. Call me an old cynic but I would strongly recommend that your friend contacts the Tax Credit Hotline and asks them which account the CTC payments are going into.... she may get a surprise.