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Original poster

Benefits

44 replies

nappyaddict · 29/11/2011 12:23

Tough one -

2 parent family. Mum would stay at home, Dad would do valuable voluntary work 3 days a week for 6 hours each day.

So is it "OK" for them to live on benefits?

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 30/11/2011 23:01

Gateway? How long would you have to faff about 'volunteering'? And which charity is it?

CogitoErgoSometimes · 01/12/2011 06:29

The "gateway to a full-time job" test depends very much on how long that would take and whether the staff assessing your benefit claim could be persuaded that it was some kind of training period rather than simply voluntary work. There are plenty of people in society who take un unpaid internships with a view to getting a full-time job at the end. However, mostly those people have other means of support and are not reliant on the state.

EdithWeston · 01/12/2011 07:08

I don't think it would be morally wrong to consider the voluntary work a route to paid employment. But depending on your exact individual circumstances, it may affect your eligibility to certain benefits. What you can claim is decided by rules, not morals.

Talk to an adviser. Have you yet done this, so you can understand my previous post about gateway benefits?

And any particular reason why the 18 hours envisaged in the OP has dropped to 16 hours? Do any of these circumstances actually yet exist?

Original poster
nappyaddict · 01/12/2011 12:33

If the 18 hours voluntary work was going to lead to full time paid employment is it morally wrong for him to do just the voluntary work, or should he be seeking at least part-time employment until it does lead to a full time job?

EW The OP is about whether it is morally "OK" and not about me, so not my place to talk to an advisor about it.

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 01/12/2011 15:15

Yes it's morally wrong!

Nobody can guarantee permanent employment these days anyway. Anything could happen. Why should he be given benefits in case a job turns up from it, when he should ( morally) be searching fir a job NOW

champagnevanity · 03/12/2011 09:21

Cogito
if we were in the house of commons, i'd be shouting 'yeaah' and nodding my head, maybe even giving you a little clap.

I think people in this country have got the benefits system all wrong.

Original poster
nappyaddict · 03/12/2011 09:49

SaraSidle So if a full-time job came up do you think he should stop doing the voluntary work even though in 12 months he would gain a diploma from it which would help him get a better paid job than what he could get now?

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 03/12/2011 13:22

If it means coming off benefits, then yes, of course!!

Original poster
nappyaddict · 17/12/2011 08:20

isn't that like saying nobody should go to college after 18 because they should get a full time job instead?

But if he got a full time job now it would be on minimum wage. If he volunteers for 12 months he then gains a diploma that he needs to get a full time paid job in that field. He wouldn't be able to work full time and gain a qualification.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 17/12/2011 14:06

"He wouldn't be able to work full time and gain a qualification"

And? A lot of people retrain in order to down a different career path. They either save up first, apply for a grant and attend college or they work during the day to pay for their family and study at night. My next-door neighbour successfully retrained as a solicitor - and you can imagine the time involved there - without jacking in his existing job. I'll be studying for a qualification myself in the new year and still holding down a FT job and being a single parent at the same time. Obviously this person has already decided that they are going to take the voluntary job, claim benefits and pretend to be looking for work and gain their diploma so I'm not sure exactly why you keep asking for the approval of others.

GypsyMoth · 17/12/2011 14:11

It sounds dodgy. Very

DiddyMary · 18/12/2011 01:28

Once again nappyaddict, I don't think ANYONE is saying it's wrong for him to do the voluntary work with a view to getting a qualification and chance of a full time job. People ARE saying it's unreasonable it's unreasonable for him to do so by claiming benefits without meeting the criteria that apply to that benefit, such as actively looking for a paid job.

There are no doubt people out there making worse fiddles, but that isn't relevant to whether or not this is wrong.

HarrietSchulenberg · 18/12/2011 01:50

If you're choosing to be supported by benefits in order to do "voluntary work", then it's not really voluntary work, is it? It's allowing the state to support you to undertake a role that is unpaid, albeit benefitting a charity or whatever.

If you are claiming unemployment benefits and volunteering you have to make sure that you are still available for work, including attending interviews to get work.

And, on another point of technicality, if someone is gaining a diploma or other qualification from unpaid work, it is NOT actually volunteering as there is a benefit to the individual. If there is an expectation of gaining something at the end of a set period of time or upon completion of a piece of work, that could constitute a contract of employment between the "volunteer" and the organisation, and most reliable voluntary organisations shy away from that for fear of litigation. Apart from the Police Special Constabulary, oddly enough.

Original poster
nappyaddict · 20/12/2011 15:12

Cogito - so you think people should only go to college if they can juggle working full time at the same time? What about if the course you wanted to do was only on during the day? Evening jobs tend to not cone with full time hours.

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 20/12/2011 15:14

College/ further ed etc is a luxury at times like this! I guess most people in work would LOVE the chance to pack in their jobs and retrain at college.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 20/12/2011 15:34

LittlestLight has it about right. Education is a privilege at the best of times and it needs particularly careful thought and planning if the person wanting to retrain happens to have responsibilities, commitments etc. Some are even lucky enough to be able to quit work, live on a grant or have family support them financially. But I think you're deliberately missing the point. You're talking about someone doing a few hours of voluntary work, not an educational qualification, and then being dishonest about their availability for work in order to claim benefits rather than take a paid job. And that's wrong. I just think they should be honest with their job centre or wherever about what they're doing and why. There maybe a different, legitimate way for them to acheive what they want to acheive.

Original poster
nappyaddict · 01/01/2012 11:11

I'm not sure why you think they have been dishonest as I have never said that and wouldn't know if they were or not. All I know is that they receive IS, CTB, HB, CTC, CB.

My question is about whether it is seen as acceptable and ok by society in general.

Would you expect a 16-25 year old in full time education to also have a full time job cos I don't know any, even those on an apprenticeship go to college 1 day out of 5. They also get paid well under nmw so wouldn't be paying tax and if they had dependents would be entitled to the same benefits as the person I know.

OP posts:
stephrick · 03/01/2012 18:47

no I would love to do volenteer work but have to have proper job, if your available which you are then work for wages and cut benefits, ps am on housing benefit

stephrick · 03/01/2012 18:48

no I would love to do volenteer work but have to have proper job, if your available which you are then work for wages and cut benefits, ps am on housing benefit

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