Do you have a Grand, Long Term Financial Plan? Or are you blowing in the wind, too?!

[ProperLush]

I am making the following, sweeping assumptions:

That you are not in an extraordinarily fortunate position (recent huge inheritance or already owning 5 rental properties etc) or keeping the letterbox locked in case the bailiffs come!

We own our home outright (which might put us, in some peoples minds, in the former group!). We have 2 x DSs, 10 and 12, we earn about £60k pa before tax and we have a couple of ISAs plus probably £15-20k pretty much doing nothing.

But we have no idea 'what our life's goals are'! Perhaps it'd be fair to say that although we are reasonably 'comfortable', the facts remain:

• we are both NHS so our pensions if not our actual jobs will disappear in the next few years.

• unless they're doing Engineering, the boys won't be able to afford university; or should I say, it would seem highly imprudent of them to saddle themselves with such eye-watering debt unless a high, steady income will be the result of that debt.

• our 'savings' are pretty paltry so really won't make much difference towards either our pensions or the boys hopes of ever moving out of the family home.

So my thoughts are, is careful analysis of savings vehicles, preparation to move money all over the place at the drop of a hat or considered 'long term investment' (like a BTL) worth spending much time over?

We'd sort of thought at the start of our careers (we're both about 50) that I'd 'retire' at 55ish (hahahaha) as opposed to 68, though of course having DCs later in life would have scuppered that, anyway. Our pensions are a dog's breakfast, holding half in Australia, half here. All we have 'achieved' is house ownership. Our 'prudence' in having no debts hardly paid off, did it?!

Do you have A Plan? Has it been shot to bits? Do you wonder why you bothered, or was it helpful to HAVE The Plan even though it's unsustainable? Or maybe you got it right and it's all going According to Plan!

Your thoughts, please!

Do you really not see how wealthy you are?

Diamond shoes too tight?

My thoughts are that you are in a very, very fortunate position. Not having to pay a mortgage/rent means you have MUCH more disposable income than other people and if you don't see that, you're being quite naive/blind.

I would recommend saving more and setting aside for your sons' further education so at least it's an option for them. Yes, it's expensive, but it can be very very worth it from many perspectives (not just increased earning potential, but life experience, gaining confidence, contacts etc.) so don't totally discount university.

I would go and see a few good and independent financial advisers, pick the best one and let them sort out some investments for you.

Each month you could have a budget, some monthly income could go towards enjoying life now. Some of your monthly income could go towards investments for the future, you could have several different ones with different maturity dates to coincide with different life events in the future.

You are basically sorted, 60k income and NO mortgage, you already have what most ?ordinary? people are still working their arses too to achieve but never actually will.

As for uni fees, there was a program on recently (BBC it think?) with Alvin Hall, he was busy busting some myths about how much of the debt students will actually have to pay back under the new system, it might be worth a look before you completely discount it.

Make you money work for you, I would be making every penny count if I was in your position!! (if I was looking for a financial adviser I would avoid the major banks (no matter what the tell you they are there to serve share holders first and customers second). I might look at Skipton Building Society as they do deal with ordinary investors, or hunt out a recommended, long standing Independent Financial Adviser.

I have a plan. Mostly revolves around putting away a certain amount each month into savings, investments, pension and a fund to give DS some options when he comes of age. Also includes paying off the remaining mortgage in the next 6 years and using the cash saved to bump up all of the above. Aiming to retire between 60 and 65 even though I won't draw a state pension until 68. Somewhere between now and then relocate back home to dear old Lancs where living costs and property is cheaper... It's not a very detailed plan but it's a rough framework.

FWIW I think you're being ridiculous to say that your NHS pension will 'disappear'. The whole point of the adjustments being put forward now is so that the scheme remains healthy for future and current NHS pensioners. Your view of the costs of university are also very short-sighted. The student loan deal is actually very good but the argument is being hijacked at present. And if you don't think your job/s are safe... never too late to look at making a more radical change to how you earn your living. Have just been talking to someone who is about to use their spare cash to buy a retirement home by the sea & get a rental income from it until they quit work. A sort of investment/income option with a long term objective of relocation.

Just requires a little application and effort...

So, can I ask- do you use:

A higher interest savings account
Stocks and Shares ISA? something riskier?
A top up on your pension? Or a SIPP?

What are the best options by way of some application?

We dont have any thing set up at all, we dont have any savings nothing, we have a morgage that is repayment so will eventually pay it off. All our money goes on trying to live at the minute. We are fortunate as apart from the morgage and normal utility bills we have no debt but cannot seem to be able to afford anything we earn about 15k a year between us. Just waiting for dd to start school next year then im going back to work full time as i only work part time at present then hopefully things will pick up. I think you are doing very well on what you have.

To be fair, spicy, we are both 50ish, and we have both been working for 30 years so have achieved a bit of seniority in our jobs! A 'starter' in my job earns £11 an hour. I earn £16.

The trouble is that some people are going to think you're quite flush, but at "50ish" one does start to worry. Our financial position is virtually identical to yours (but with no pensions [scream emoticon!]) and have no inheritances to rely on.

I think in the current climate many people feel paralysed as to what to do for the best. Stocks and shares? What if everything goes belly up and all your hard-earned cash disappears in a puff of smoke? Buy to let? Personally I feel a bit uncomfortable with the morality of that - plus can't afford it - not round here, anyway. University fee planning? OMG - it makes me ill just to think about it.

So, solidarity, here - but not much help, I'm afraid!

We are in a similar position to you Proper - same sort of age too - we have a higher interest savings account (4% - we need to be able to get at the money if necessary); some shares which I was left over 40 years ago, two ISAs and a top up pension - nb: self employed so no automatic pension and we haven't been saving anything like nearly enough.

No life goals either !

gramercy and Ragwort

We feel each other's 'pain'!

It's always difficult stating this stuff in a public forum as inevitably you will get the likelihood of some people who feel we should be crowing our incredible 'luck' from the rooftops, overlooking the reality which is yes, a certain degree of luck (supportive families, reasonable (state) education, reasonable health and so forth) but the rest is studying sufficiently hard and long to get well-enough qualified; making prudent if boring choices regarding spending and saving; sensible, stable career choices (i.e solid, boring 'jobs for life'-with-a-reasonable-pension); making as sensible and wise relationship choices as possible; being able to afford things before spending out on them- like kids!.

These things come together to form yes, some sort of expectation I guess, but everything is up in the air now for PLU as well as for the 'less committed'. I recognise completely that 'that's the way it is' but I still wonder whether we should have 'life goals' anymore or whether we must just 'wing it' like we'd never made any plans or left our lives 'to chance'!

My DH doesn't so much have a plan for our financial future but he has thought through and modelled up our likely liability profile (change in living costs/school fees/uni fees etc etc) out to about age 100 (we're in our late 30s!).

He then matches that against our likely incoming cashflows (salaries/bonuses/pensions etc) and assets. He can tweak most of the inputs and change variables such as inflation, real returns on various assets (equities, bonds, deposits, property etc).

The number of assumptions is clearly huge but playing around with different scenarios, it is very illuminating and can be scary. I really didn't understand how much money we require to be comfortable/secure. The importance of making a few percent more in real terms on investments, improving tax efficiency, reducing outgoings by say downsizing can be massive when projected out over decades.

So there is no grand plan but I now understand why my DH has pursued certain career options over others, how we balance time spent earning money vs investing money, what risk-profile we need to take investing etc etc

Blimey, that's organised and impressive, seriously. I'm not mocking- it shows forethought and planning! In that you are in a far better place re 'what to do' if you know 'where you are'.

I have Cash ISAs and Stocks and Shares ISAs that I contribute to regularly. I have some other unit-trust/tracker type investments, shares in one particular company that I used to work for & a money purchase pension to which my current employer contributes. There's also the house. If there's a strategy it's 'diversification' in order to spread the risk. As I get older I shall probably move more into guaranteed things like fixed term, index-linked bonds and away from riskier options like stocks and shares. Quite like the idea of investing in property in the future.

I agree Proper - it is hard to debate this sort of topic without appearing to be boastful and I am the first to admit that we are in a very, very fortunate position compared to many people. I wasn't entirely honest yesterday as we have also invested in a small to-let property as part of our 'pension' for the future.

Have a plan:
Continue paying off mortgage (end date quite near)
Continue paying into my pension
Continue saving for university for dd (should she want to go)
Actively monitoring my own investment/pension £, and periodically make adjustments
Have retirement date in mind and am planning accordingly
Have made a will, and will be seeing a solicitor in the next few months to tweak as circumstances have changed slightly

Feel fortunate but must take credit too, as have been quite focused and prudent. Have some luxuries, but don't spend the way many of my friends/family do.

Part of why i have a plan is that i have no one to fall back on should things go terribly wrong - single parent, no family who could/would help, etc.

We sound like we're in a similar situation Earlybird. Also a single parent that lives modestly because I'm very conscious that one wrong move or one bit of bad luck could spell disaster. As for being fortunate the saying goes... 'the harder I work, the luckier I get'... :)

Chiming in here, as feeling INCREDIBLY stressed re. finances (similar to OPs income level) - but would probably be deemed incredibly privileged and fortunate. Solo parent completely reliant solely on self-employed income - but no mortgage.

Made choice (privileged to be able to, I know), to send the 2 DCs to fee paying school. No pension at all. No critical illness insurance. Current income has nose-dived drastically in last year. Not sure where this year's tax will come from let alone school fees. Yes, yes, I know I'm in an incredibly privileged position but it's all relative and I'm at the 3 o'clock in the morning waking and worrying stage. Would sell/ remortgage home rather than take DCs out of private school (just a choice thing, as, for me, the education is the top priority).

No financial plan for the future and no partner on the horizon - nor has been for yrs - to shoulder the financial burden. Totally reliant on my self-employment.

Question: where does someone like me go for financial advice - NOT related to savings investments and pensions but rather, looking at all case scenarios in terms of taking out a new mortgage to pay school fees and the implications of that or just exactly what's the current picture in real net terms and what paths are open to me?

Hopeless at maths/ figures and anxiety makes this even worse. Are there financial advisers around who can do a complete money review with you - a bit like Alvin whatisname on the TV - and say "This is your current real position. These are the options open to you and the potential scenarios for the future" - or do all financial advisers really exist to get you to invest in various ways and means? Just want/ need a review and some basic plans for the way ahead, as all the bills increase and the income decreases.

I suggest you and your children read Martin Lewis' guide to the new student finance system before dismissing university. Under the new system the total amount of debt is larger but the monthly repayments will actually be less than they are currently.

"Question: where does someone like me go for financial advice"

You sound like you need a financial version of a life-coach (your Alvin Hall example) and a good independent financial adviser should be able to give you the information you're looking for. Would recommend that you're up front about what job you want them to do in order to get the best service and avoid any kind of hard sell. Your situation involves cash-flow management, long-term/short-term planning, personal choices and setting priorities rather than simply where to get the best deals. An alternative would be to go through the books with a financially savvy friend that you can trust with the information. I actually do that role for a friend myself.

I find the best place to start - and where a lot of these 'sort out your money' TV progs start - is to list assets, income and outgoings as fully as possible. Understand down to the penny what money is coming in and what is going out. You have a big asset, for example, but your income is not keeping pace with your outgoings by the sound of it. The immediate ways forward, therefore, will either be to increase your income, reduce your outgoings, generate some capital from your asset or (most likely) a combination of all three.

Thanks, Cogito. The current anxiety makes it all seem a muddle but you've stated exactly the issue for me at the moment. Now just have to find a financial coach - and the money to pay them - or find the time to sit down and look calmly and clearly at the situtation. Big problem is finding the time - even the time to think about how to generate more work!

My 'time' for personal finances is usually evenings or Sunday afternoons when there's not much else going on. :) I can recommend Microsoft's very simple 'Money' application which, although technically obsolete, can still be downloaded for free and is a good way of putting all your finances in one place and enable you to see what's going on, projecting cashflows etc. (There are other packages but I haven't used those) When you know how large the shortfall is, then you can select your financial advisor & start planning how to bridge the gap.