Reduced pension for women?

[Ooopsadaisy]

Hi

I've just seen the headline of a paper and I think it read that women are going to get £40.00 less pension per week than men.

Surely I am wrong? Please reassure me.

They can't possibly discriminate in this way can they?

Can you post a link?

It's not true generally, but there are some oddities (based on the now defunct married women's stamp (IIRC)). If someone chose to opt from full NI to lower rate, they get a lower pension.

No link.

I saw the headline on an actual newspaper. Don't even know which one. I was just passing a bloke and it caught my eye (the paper, not him).

I think it was the Express - just googling now.

Not read it through yet but this looks like the story:

Telegraph

Does the government need to do something about this or should we be factoring in NI payments into decisions to stay at home?

I don't think expecting a (healthy) person to be in paid work for 30 years of their working life is too much to ask for a full pension, if you could start work at 18 and retire at 68 then that's 50 years in which to get those 30 years.

Help is needed (if it isn't there already) for those too ill to work. For those working part time and under the NI level should have the option to 'top up' made more clear to them.

To be honest I'm not too sure there will even be a state pension in 30 years time.

It's a historical anomaly, just not the one I mentioned.

There are measures to mitigate already in place - change to 30 years, plus HRP.

Looks as if others are under discussion (flat rate). Plus there's the Pensions Credit which will mitigate this anyhow.

Underlying message not addressed by article: the state pension isn't that much to live on. To be prudent, do whatever you can to have a personal pension as well. The new provisions for all employers to provide access to a pensions plan unless employee actively opts out will also help.

Aaah - so the headline was a bit "attention seeking" wasn't it?

So, as I understand it, if you ain't paying yer stamp you don't get full rights to a pension - is that right?

Well why is this women?

Surely all the workshy are affected as well as those unfortunate to lose their jobs or be unable to work? Aren't they losing too?

It's not an intentional gender issue: anyone with an incomplete NI record would be equally affected.

But it affects more women than men as they are more likely to have incomplete NI records - especially older women, as HRP (a very important protection) is comparatively recent and the reduction from 39 to 30 years isn't quite here yet.

The article is obviously written to support the case for flat rate pensions, as it doesn't mention the ameliorating effects of pensions credit. But then again, moving to flat rate would eliminate the costs of running pensions credit.

Oooooh - I seriously have a poor understanding of this whole area.

I thought you just paid your NI and everyone who had done so got a pension.

HRP - (I've heard of HRT, not HRP)

Flat rate????

Think I need to phone someone .....

HRP is "home responsibilities protection": it means you get NI credited to your record whilst you receive certain qualifying benefits eg CB until your youngest child is 11.

So if you have always paid NI (however big or small the amount) since age 16, you still get a pension - is it about £95.00 per week?

Is that right?

So is it SAHM's who lose out then?

Also the workshy and those who can't work also presumably lose out.

What about those who are made redundant - that seems really wrong?

Todays SAHMs don't lose out necessarily if they claim CB and their youngest child is under 11. But those retting now may do so is the gaps in their record are from before HRP started.

The unemployed don't necessarily lose out as JSA also bearings an NI credit and it is possible to sign on and receive that credit even if you are above threshold for the cash element of the benefit. Some other benefits also bring NI credits.

Here's a link to a list of qualifying circumstances and benefits.

What about if I had 6 months off between jobs?

I left my old job because the stress was doing me damage. I was not working for 6 months (rehabilitation!) - but did loads of cash things so no NI paid.

Does this mean I lose my pension?

I'm trying to read up the DirectGov stuff but it's all blah, blah to me.

That means you lose one qualifying year though if you had CB you'll have got it anyway

Thanks to all who have helped educate me!

I'm obviously very stupid on this subject.

Am reading up your link as well as DirectGov stuff.

So it's a non-story then?

onimolap - yes very much agree this is where we are eventually headed. The headline is really a red herring as those of us (man or woman) in our 40s or younger really have no idea what pension or benefits we will be entitled to. The entire system will be changed by then to a flat rate benefit entitlement.

Govts of all colours have tried to keep up the pretence that 'what you put in determines what you get out'. That is not and never has been the case.

By the time pension credits, housing benefit and a myriad of other top up benefits and allowances are taken into account the relationship between what anyone paid into the system and what they take out is well and truely broken. A flat rate benefit would sweep away all that complexity.

This is an idea that has gained ground in recent years and especially on the 'right' of politics. It moves away from the idea that benefits should be used as a way of levelling up society by transfering wealth from rich to poor as is still promulgated by the 'left'.

Instead, the big idea is of each citizen being entitled to an equal amount of basic welfare (rather than say a graduated means tested benefit) regardless of wealth or previous earnings. In a way it keys into the Thatcherite idea of people being primarily responsibe for looking after themselves, then looking after their neighbours (as per Cameron Big Society) then and only then should someone fall back on welfare provided by the state when all else has failed.

That system would not discriminate against people who had stayed at home to look after children.

Very good post BeenBeta.

I agree that the headline in question is really a red herring.

I also think we're moving towards a far less complex system whereby every citizen is entitled to a basic rate of welfare, which people then build on through working, with the broad idea being that you work as hard as you want/need to provide the lifestyle you want. Its definitely a better way of ensuring that 'work pays', and that there is a clearer correlation between hours worked and earnings. The current system is far too complex as well as unfair.

I also agree that that its a sobering reminder for the hundreds of thousands of people (mainly women) who really give no thought to their pension and seem to blithely assume that they'll be able to continue living in the manner to which theyre accustomed after their husband has died.... I know quite a few intelligent and educated women who really haven't given this whole area a thought!

Back in the headlines - and all the red herrings still there, it seems.