Quick Tax question

[Melty]

I work for the NHS. Am being sent to a conference in Portugal in November. (A bit tedious and would rather not go, but hey ho)
Education dept is paying conference registration fee. (£300 quid or so) Dept I am working for is paying the accommodation and flights, (comes to about £400 quid all in, just B&B, nothing else paid for)

Dept head seems to think we have to notify payroll as its a benefit and tax people need to know.
Fine. Whatever we have to do.

But, does anyone know whether I am likely have to pay tax on it?
I have tried to look at HMRC website, but to be honest am completely confused. It seems yes I do have to and no I dont!!

I will not be happy if I have to, considering the conference is Thurs, Fri and Sat, travelling back on Sunday. I lose my days off, and it most certainly is not a holiday.

They have to report it to HMRC but you should not have to pay tax on it. Sometime in April/May next year they will send a form called a P11D to HMRC and send you a copy.

If you get a tax return, fill in the amount they have paid you on the Employment page in box 16 'Expenses payments received...' and the same amount as a business expense in box 17 'Business travel and subsistence expenses.

You should keep all the records until the end of January 2013 in case HMRC ask any questions.

No you don't have to declare it because it is reimbursement of a legitimate business expense (travel, hotel, conference) and not a perk. If they were giving you £700 cash and saying ... do what you like with it Melty... then it would be a perk and you'd pay tax on it. (NB If you are paying for any of these items out of your own pocket, obviously you'd have to submit an expense claim form for the audit trail)

I spend £300 on travel and £200-ish on accommodation about once a month when I travel to the continent for meetings. If were liable for tax on it, I'd quit sharpish :)

Thank you both.
They are not paying me anything extra.

They are paying the cost upfront. I will be responsible for getting to the airport and feeding myself while there. (Am relieved thats all I am expected to pay for!)

I do a self assessment tax return, as I occasionally teach a private class on the weekend.
I am thinking it might may confuse things somewhat.

When I looked at the HMRC website, it appeared that I didn't need to pay tax if it was a reimbursement, but it looked like if I earn more than £8,500 (which I do), and the costs were paid upfront directly to the travel agent/hotel that I might have to have a different tax code and pay more PAYE.
Which is why I was confused.

My view with all things tax-related is not to offer information unless specifically asked. :) You are right to think it might confuse matters to mention this. HMRC, as we've seen recently, are very capable of getting the wrong end of the stick and I have an ongoing situation with them at the moment on exactly the subject of whether my expenses are a like-for-like reimbursement (which they are) or a perk (which they're not). It's actually got so bad that my accountant has agreed to ignore any tax coding advice and just go with a reasonable average.

Good luck

Chil,unfortunately my dept head is all about doing the right thing (keen to have everything above board, which I dont have a problem with)and wants to notify payroll, (who generally manage to screw things up every couple of months,so not so excited about that) so I dont have a choice in the notification.

Just confused re what happens after.

You should also be able to claim subsistence allowances when you get back. Are you a member of UNISON? Ask them for advice.

If your employer is paying the costs directly and not getting you to pay then reimbursing you then the question of a possible benefit does not arise. It should not be reported on your P11D.

Sorry Hippo, unless the employer has a dispensation (and if I remember correctly, NHS and other public bodies do not have dispensations as a rule although I stand to be corrected on this), business travel expenses whether paid directly or reimbursed to the employee do have to be reported on a P11D (but if the employee earns less than £8,500 this category of expense does not have to be reported on a P9D).

But there is no point arguing about this, Melty if you don't get a P11D you have nothing to worry about. If you do there should be no confusion with your expenses related to your self-employed earnings: as I said before, this expense goes in box 17 on the Employment page.

Of course if they do include it on a payslip as taxable earnings then you will have to take it up with payroll, but they would have to be very stupid to do this.

Melty, You also need to talk to some of your colleagues who have been to other conferences either at home or overseas.

There should be a scale of subsistence allowances depending on the length of time you are away from home. You will be able to claim for your "out of pocket" expenses, such as car parking at the airport, Lunches, Taxi fares, Evening meals.

Sounds like expenses to me. And there is an amount allowable in tax terms for subsistence - not a great amount but you shouldn't have to pay for that either (ie not pay for it nor be taxed on it).

I find it hard to believe that the nhs wouldn't have a dispensation for expenses so I am pretty sure it wouldn't need to be on p11d

Ah I see mranchovy (who knows rather more than i do about tax matters) is pretty sure the nhs doesn't have a dispensation. I would go with what he knows :)

Thanks to all.
So it does have to be declared, but I probably dont have to pay tax on it..

Wasnt bothered about the declaration bit, just worried that I would have a messed up Tax code.
mranchovy my payroll dept has a history of miscalculating pay, on a regular basis. I haven't had any issues for the last year, but before that, every single month I would
be underpaid. It was a constant fight.
One month I didnt get paid at all because they accidently deleted me off the system. So I would say they can be very stupid.
Although obv, the tax code comes from the tax office, I just dont trust payroll.

Lucinda, I've already been told there is no money to pay for any other expenses apart from what is already covered.

I will just wait until the end of the year, I presume the form will come with my p60

My advice to you is to join the appropriate Union for your sector. Perhaps it is Unison?

If the expenses are put on your P11D you will be taxed on it unless you fill in a tax return claiming the expenses as necessary expenses of employment or you write to your tax office making the claim. The deduction is not automatic.

I think this thread is a storm in a tea cup.

I think the OP is getting over anxious over something which will never happen.

IF The Education dept of your employer pays directly for the conference fees and the air fare, thenI do not think that those payments will be attached in any way to your pay account.

My message to the OP is relax, you are worrying about nothing.

Thank you Hippo, I pay tax by self assessment as I do other non PAYE work, so I will do as advised and put it in Box 17.

Lucinda, I am in the RCN.
The NHS has no money and we dont have a departmental budget for subsistence.
I actually dont mind about the subsistence as if I was here I'd be sorting out my own lunch and dinner. Just dont want to pay tax on top if I dont have to.

Lucinda, my dept head has already told me he will be giving the details to Payroll.
(He wants everything to be above board)

As I see it you have nothing to worry about.

If some of the bills are being paid direct to the conference and to the airline, then those payments are not going via your payroll number.

I think your dept head is a bit of a jobsworth with no knowledge of what she or he is talking about. Relax.

In the interests of a fascinating tax question (I'm an accountant so this counts as fascinating in my world) I dug out my last P11D. To the best of my knowledge an belief being reimbursed legitimate travel expenses to somewhere other than your normal place of work is not a benefit in kind.

Reimbursed expenses appear on the P11D in section N unless the NHS has dispensation to not show this as mentioned above by MrAnchovy. My company does have this dispensation so this section is blank on my P11D. They arent taxable normally, they are just recorded there.

Regarding other out of pocket expenses - you should be able to claim for travel to the airport and other modest expenses while away. Your department may not have the budget for this but that is your manager's problem and not yours. If your manager cant afford the expenses then your manager shouldnt be sending you and expecting you to subsidise the NHS. That is just dim and mean on the part of your manager (IMO).

By the way, I hope you enjoy the conference.

Melty - even if you don't get reimbursed for your subsistence, travel to airport etc you can still claim them as deductible expenses of employment. Put them in your tax return and you should get a tax refund. Also applies to any subs paid to professional bodies which are necessary to be able to do your job if you do not get these paid by your employer (as long as they are on the revenue's list of approved bodies, I think there is a list on the HMRC website).