Having termination as fetus can't survive... please help

[hopefullypregnant]

Following my nuchal scan and subsequent tests we know that my baby has severe abnormalities and wouldn't survive. I am having a termination (other option - to wait, but could take months before baby dies...) and seeing second consultant tomorrow. First one today recommended chemically induced termination via oral tablets. What will this mean, in practical terms? He said other option was surgery but this was more risky. Can anyone tell me their experiences? I know this isn't a miscarriage as such and so I feel awful posting it here, but I dont know where else to post it... and essentially this was the only decision it was practical to take. I feel devastated and shocked, still. I have a one year old who is still breastfed - just hope I can breastfeed through all of this - would that make a difference?
Thanks for your help...

hp: I am thinking of you today. I am sorry that you are feeling sick and having nightmares. Try to take care of yourself in the coming days and weeks. Don't expect too much of yourself.

SAMR71's advice is sound about counselling. I have not gone that route because we have been in 5 countries (and countless homes) over the last few years so I haven't sought help.

I did not find out why I miscarried. After our first loss I was not interested in finding out because we already had two healthy children and I was convinced that it was down to stress about (and the physical exertion of) moving overseas. I was not offered any testing after our second loss (in the UK) and the results following the twins were inconclusive...

We had a friend and our children with us at the cremation because everyone knew that we were expecting. In some ways this made things easier but there were times when I would have preferred some privacy; the looks of pity and despair on people's faces when they didn't know what to say was nearly unbearable.

I am spoiled rotten to have four healthy children and despite having recently gone on to have a fourth miscarriage, I shan't complain. I cannot imagine what these experiences would be like for someone without a child to be strong for.

I hope that your day is not a long one and that you are surrounded in helpful, sympathetic midwives.

Hi all and thank you for posting. I am so sorry to hear about other people's experiences, and at later stages of pregnancy than me. It is so hard to understand, and then also it makes me realize even more how precious life is.

We arrived at the hospital at 8.15 yesterday, eventually had the pessaries at 9.45 (delay partly incompetence on their part, partly paperwork, and then partly me crying my eyes out and going rigid when they tried to insert the pessaries). The baby was born at 2.20 pm and I didnt have terrible pain - managed on paracetamol and codeine - but I fainted when the baby was born and then was confined to bed to deliver the placenta, which took ages as I was lying down. The morning nurse was frankly not great - her English wasnt great and I couldnt understand her a lot of the time, and she couldnt understand me, although she was trying to be nice. The afternoon nurse was lovely: strong and compassionate and reassuring. We did see our baby and s/he looked utterly perfect, which of course leads me to wonder: were they right?... was there something that wrong...? but I need to just accept that we made the decision and that was that. Baby is having a postmortem and chromosomal testing and we'll get the results in 6-8 weeks.

Physically I didnt find the process too awful - think maybe I was lucky - emotionally I think it's just going to slowly sink in over time. We won't know the baby's sex until the chromosomal testing is complete and will wait to name him/her until then but we do want to name the baby. In terms of the cremation, DH really wants to go, so we probably will. I don't know how I feel. I'm still very raw.

I think the hardest thing for me was the actual decision to terminate - as SAMR says it feels against everything in your whole body.

I guess it's baby steps now, one foot at a time, and coping as we can. DD helps: she is healthy, and so as we wait to find out what went wrong this time, I comfort myself with knowing that we can have a healthy child.

Thank you for all the support: it really helps. I wish you all strength too. And I'm sure I'll be back with more questions.

Big well done... I am thinking back to where we were back in March, and so feel for you hugely. Just be assured that the fog does lift - it just takes time, and you are so right to take things v slowly.
The other place to look for advice and support is ARC - www.arc-uk.org - definitely worth looking at - it's a charity which helps people who have had to make difficult decisions like we have. They have a helpline you can call in and discuss anything with, or just have a good cry to.
Like you we have a healthy child - he was 2 at the beginning of this month - he really gave me the strength to get up in the morning, and keep going... and we feel so lucky to have him.
One step at a time. Thinking of you.

I'm sorry that I missed this yesterday.

Taking things slowly is the best plan.

I am sorry that things were not as organised at the hospital as they could have been. How disappointing.

It is very emotional and hard when the baby looks so perfect but I did feel better about having seen that with my own eyes. I personally found it harder to heal both physically and emotionally from the D&C than from the medical option.

Maybe the tests will provide you with some answers.

I am glad that the physical experience is behind you so that you can focus on grieving and healing.

Keep posting if you feel that it helps.

Be kind to yourself.

Thinking of you.

I had a mmc at 18 weeks and took the tablets to induce labour.

I would recommend speaking with the bereavement midwife if you can (and if your hospital has one). They were a great source of support for me.

Also the hosptial arranged a cremation for me. I dreaded it but actually found it very helpful in my emotional recovery too.

Thanks for the comments, all of you. I'm sorry you've all been through this and at later stages of pregnancy than me.

I agree that actually going through the process awake was important, in the end - not saying it helped, because I'm not sure if it did or not, but I am glad I was actively part of the process and got to see my baby. I am dreading the cremation but think that is probably another step I need to take.

What I'm finding hard is that in RL only my parents and PILs know. My parents had a miscarriage and also tried for 10 years before they had me, so they understand in a way, but they definitely want to downplay things, probably to stop me hurting. My PILs sent a text today 'hope you're all better and forgetting about it now'. I think that shows they don't understand, although I guess nobody does until they go through it and they are trying to help.

We do have a bereavement counsellor, thanks for the suggestion - but not at the hospital: would have to travel 40 miles to get there, which is awkward with DD and work.... I will check out the arc website, thanks for the link.

The weekend has been better than expected - busy and devoted to DD, and I'm coping.

Thank you all again and I wish you all hadnt had to go through what you have.

I'm glad the weekend has been better than you thought it might be...
Tricky re counselling being so far away - suggest you keep all options open, but call ARC as soon as poss - don't worry about bursting into tears as soon as someone picks up the phone - that's what I did, and they are used to it... As well as talking to you they have a useful booklet which might help you make decisions about things like the cremation... Just to warn you it does also talk about the birth quite a lot, and I don't know how you will find that having already been through it.
Re other people knowing - it is really hard. As well as my parents, I had told 4 of my friends I was pregnant - on the one hand it was difficult as I felt I had to keep them up to date with progress throughout (we actually knew from about 14 wks that there was a major problem, but for various reasons we waited) but on the other hand it was good to have support on the end of the phone (none of those friends, nor my parents live near us). After the event, once we had got over the inital rawness of the situation, I followed my instinct a bit as to who I told - I sometimes found it easier to explain why I was a bit wobbly, and hadn't been around much, than just pretend everything was fine. Gradually people found out - we didn't really want sympathy, but the support really helped, and people were much gentler with us, and it was much easier when people knew not to ask that awful question "so when's no 2 coming along then"..... I think the ARC booklet offers some advice on this as well. It is so hard, as it is the thing that occupies your mind so much of the time, but it can be really hard to talk to anyone about it as so few people do understand.....
I have learnt there is no "right" way to deal with any of this - we have found we are gradually working out our way of dealing with it and living with it - and we are still learning, but it really is getting easier.
Take care of yourself...

Hello Hopefully,
Glad that the day itself was not any more traumatic for you than it had to be. Like you say, it's little steps now, and it does get better. But be prepared for it to take a while. Try not to beat yourself up for feeling low - what you have been through is traumatic, and your hormones are magnifying everything that you feel. Your PIL message was completely lacking in empathy, how could you just forget about it? Grrr. I'm sure they meant well, people just don't like to see people they love hurting, but you don't have to put on a brave face for anybody just yet.
Take care of yourself. xxx

Hello Hopefully,

How are things today? Glad to hear that the week-end was busy and that you are coping. That is all you should expect for the next little bit.

As for the PIL: It is so difficult for them to know what to say because they really just don't want to see you in pain. My parents are really similar and I found (still find actually) some of their well-meant comments extremely painful to hear. You are absolutely right to be hurt and annoyed by their insensitive text message but it won't help you to heal if you dwell on these feelings.

Try to remain focused on you, your DD and your DH. The other people in your lives should be less of a priority.

I am also sorry that any of us have to go through these experiences but I am always very grateful for MN because at least there are others 'out there' with similar experiences willing to offer advice.

Hi all of you and thanks for your support.

SAMR, I understand why telling people helps. DH has told his boss, a friend at work and another friend. The boss was sympathetic, the friend at work unexpectedly revealed that almost the exact same thing had happened to them, and the other friend said 'I am sorry for what you've been through and support you all the way but it's difficult as we all have different opinions on abortion'. That has upset me because I didn't and don't see it as abortion, even though I suppose other people do/would... I haven't told anyone in RL yet - am going to tell a close friend tomorrow. I feel ashamed, upset, guilty, and I find it easier not to tell people. I think if I need counselling it's to come to terms with the termination as much as the loss.

Sweetpea, in some ways it hasnt sunk in yet and so I can function reasonably normally with people who don't know. I suspect that means grief will take longer to work through but I have to do it the way I am, and that is naturally to be afraid to open up and to prefer to talk about other things.

Cadmum, I agree, there's no point wasting energy on insensitive comments: people mean well; they don't know what to say and how to help, and we have to accept that and take what comfort we can. And actually it's good that more people don't understand: it means they havent had to live through it.

Mumsnet helps because I can gain strength from all your advice and support. It is much appreciated still. Thank you.

Oh my goodness! I am so very sorry that your DH had to confide in someone that would say something so cruel. Horrible really...

I do hope that this other friend's wife never finds herself in a position where she might have to make a similar decision.

I can only imagine how that must have made you (and your DH) feel.

So much for my own advice about not dwelling on what people have to say in these situations... Having said that I cannot stretch my imagination far enough to come up with a way that this particular comment could ever be considered helpful or compassionate.

and on your behalf.

How did telling your close friend go today?

I have a close friend who eventually confided in me that she was in a similar situation but was told that the pregnancy would cost her life and she chose to terminate. She still has days (4 years later) when she worries that she made the wrong decision. It is so hard to know what is best sometimes but in both your cases, the decision seems clear especially in view of the fact that you have a child to care for.

Sorry for the novel. I initially intended to let you know that I was thinking of you and hoping that your day went well.

I am glad that MN is helpful. I found it to be a lifeline when RL people were too challenging to cope with.

Hi hopefullypregnant - How are you doing now? Has it helped telling your friend? Your reaction sounds quite similar to mine... I terminted at 21 weeks after diagnosis of a fatal genetic disorder - I could have carried on with the pregnancy but, even if by a small chance my son was still alive at term, he would never have survived. I was already showing at that stage as well and I just couldn't bear the idea of carrying my baby any longer not knowing if he was still alive and potentially in pain (his joints were all fused so he couldn't move) and not knowing when I would miscarry. However, despite the bump only a handful of friends knew I was pregnant and although they tried to be supportive and kind, I just pushed them away and wanted to talk about other things - it was too raw. The problem now, 3 years later, is that I would dearly love to talk about Henry but I think I've frightened my friends off the subject.

We also had a post-mortem done and we did get answers to all our questions. We were also offered genetic counselling and had the most amazing supportive care by the hospital / consultants. Hopefully you will have the same experience, and that you get the answers you need.

My thoughts are really with you... Its just a thought but I knew that I wanted to have something that represented my 3 sons (I already had a 2yr old when Henry died and have gone on to have another son), so I have a gorgeous necklace with 3 silver pebbles on each carrying the birthstone of my boys. Its just one secret way of me recognising that I have 3 sons, even though to everyone else I only have 2. It may be an idea to find something similar that just gives you that added comfort that your child will be remembered.

Sorry for the essay As I said I now like talking about Henry. He was and is very much a part of us and our history. Take care

Hi Hopefullypregnant
Just to let you know I'm thinking of you and hope things went well with your freind.
I totally understand you saying you need to come to terms with your decision as well as the loss - I was lucky as my counsellor specialises in pregnancy and neo-natal loss, so it was just as much about our decision as about the loss... I used to go in and just tell her all the different things I had been feeling, and she assured me that they were all very normal reactions... She listened, and reassured, and helped me see things from different perspectives - this really helped with the feelings of guilt... And you know - 7 months down the line, I really have come to terms with our decision, and I am still v sad about our loss, but I have reached a kind of acceptance - Annie is v much part of our family story. Like Chooster I decided I really wanted something I could wear all the time to represent our little girl - I have a necklace with a pendant - a cross for Faith, and anchor for Hope, and a heart for Love - Annie was blessed after she was born, and this was v relevant to the blessing.
Something which helped me come to terms with our decision was a quote I found (which I have written down somewhere and now can't find) - it is along the lines of loving our little ones so much we are brave enough to set them free...
You are still v much in the early stages of your journey - none of the stuff I have talked about happened over night - it was v much a gradual process, and I feel now in retrospect, hard as it was then, I needed things to go really slowly - life's whole perspective seemed to change, and it is a lot to get your head and heart around - but you will come out stronger. And don't forget to look after yourself physically too, as that takes time as well....
xx

Just checking as I was thinking of you...

Hi all

I am touched that you keep posting.

Cadmum, I think the problem lay partly with DH not explaining properly. His friend is a woman and she lost a baby at term - unexplained still birth, some years ago - and she also has a child with learning difficulties. I think his lack of explanation made her think we had terminated because the baby might have Downs syndrome and she found that hard to stomach. Since she realized that this wasn't the case, she has been very supportive. I guess termination is a difficult issue...

Chooster, I am really sorry about Henry, and sorry that people don't want to talk about him anymore. The necklace sounds perfect. And it is important that you remember him. SAMR, I think your necklace sounds lovely, too. And thank you (and Chooster) for telling me your babies' names. I am glad you have reached a kind of peace, however sad, and your counsellor sounds wonderful.

I havent told my friend yet. I havent told anyone. I meant to, yesterday, but I just couldnt in the end. She lives 200 miles away, so it would have meant a phone call/email, and I chickened out. I think I have to do it though, because I do need someone to listen/understand in RL. And also I don't want my baby just to be forgotten and only remembered by me.

I am coping with it all though. Yesterday was tough because I was at home and I bled insanely heavily and had bad cramps. Today I've been at work and just repressed all thoughts of anything other than work. I guess part of my coping mechanism must be to push what I can't face out of my head until I can face it. I can hardly believe I'm doing normal things.

Thank you all of you for your support. I will keep posting. Thank you xx

Hopefully, Sorry for being OTT about your DH's friend. It does make more sense if she didn't understand the circumstances especially given her experience. How sad.

Termination is a very difficult issue. I have often wondered what I would do in a similar situation given my Ob history. I am a big believer in not judging other people because it is virtually impossible to know all of the pieces on their puzzle

I wish that you had been able to tell your friend but I can see how that would be difficult. Perhaps when the time is right a moment will present itself. Do you find it easier to be at work or do you wish that you had more time to heal on your own? I know what you mean about pushing it out of your head until you can cope. Just try to find the time to feel sad. You are entitled to feel that way and everything you are feeling is normal. You have been through a lot in the past few weeks.

As for the bleeding insanely heavily: Has it slowed down? I ask because I was in a similar situation following our first loss and I actually needed to have a d&c... Be sure to keep an eye on it especially if you start to feel poorly.

Chooster: The necklace is a lovely idea. I am sorry that you lost Henry. He was fortunate to have such a kind an loving mum for his short life.

SAMR71 7 months is not a long time in the grand scheme of things but it sounds as though you are coping well and taking it slowly. Having your daughter blessed and wearing a necklace to remember her are important ways to help you heal without feeling like you have to forget and move on.

I feel quite blessed that I have friends who do remember our unborn babies. One close friend was with me as a shoulder to cry on following the loss of Owen in Canada and was actually in the UK and came to the crematorium with my family when we lost Peter and Matthias. A second friend stayed with me for a few days following the twins cremation and she will occasionally tell me that she thinks of them and wonders what my life would be like with four boys and one daughter rather than 2 and 2 (which is what we have gone on to have). She was the only person brave enough to ask if she could come to the hospital and see the twins. It meant a huge amount to me to know that they were real to people other than DH, our children and me.

I don't even know the sex of the baby we lost at 13 weeks because I was offered a D&C and was never informed of any results (if tests were even done). I feel a great sadness when I think that this little one's life is somehow less valued or honoured because we have no name, no photos, and only scary hospital experiences to remember him or (as I imagine) her.

Sorry for another novel. I guess that it just shows how close to the surface the feeling of loss can be at times. It is nice to be able to talk/write about it once in a while.

Cadmum, your 'novels' are really helping me so thank you. I can see it must be odd to have had the surgical option and not to know the sex or anything more about the baby you lost at 13 weeks. Our first consultant recommended the medical management option to me partly so I would have someone to remember, and I am very glad I did, although I gather some people feel very differently. When I do remember seeing that perfect body, the coping goes out of the window and I feel ready to crumble.

Interestingly my parents had major fertility issues - took 10 years to have me, and had a late miscarriage in that time - and my mother is very anti-abortion as a result, but she was entirely in agreement with our decison (for some reason I separate what we did in my head from other kinds of abortion - which is probably wrong, because nobody would terminate a baby with trivial reason, surely - but to me what we did was what we had to do, somehow). What I find difficult in my parents' reaction is how they want to forget so quickly: they don't want us to go to a cremation service, though when we said we were going to they said they would come. They clearly want to sweep it away - but then now, having a daughter myself, I sort of understand that what they actually want is to wish my pain away. I think friends are different from parents because they can share the pain in a less emotionally entangled way. I am going to tell my friend on Friday when I'm not working and have time and space for a phone call (well, I have DD too, but you know what I mean).

Work helps me, I think, but as soon as I am alone I am desolate, so I am finding space to grieve.

Thank you again and I am glad that you can write about your losses here: I am sorry about Owen, Peter and Matthias and also your unnamed child.

SAM71, I forgot to say - I love the name Annie. Did all of you choose your names based on their meanings or on liking them? At the moment I want to give this child a name that means something, whereas I wasn't bothered about the meaning when I named DD, more about how it sounded...

Hello, hopefullypregnant. I just wanted to post and offer my support too. Our first baby was diagnosed with anencephaly at the 20 week scan, and we chose to have her induced at 21 weeks. This was 3 1/2 years ago, and some days I still miss her terribly, though her little sister is now with us, safe and well.

P was perfect apart from her poor little head, and I can understand how that perfect little body would make you struggle. But you know there's nothing you could have done to help your baby, just as we couldn't help P.

I think you do find a home for this pain and grief - I know I'm changed forever by what happened, but I know it's something I can live with now.

hihopefullypregnant - thinking of you as just filled out a little card for our baby sam who died at 21 weeks - his name is from cantonese for three as would have been dh's third child.

Your parents reactions rang a real bell with me - my mum was lovely/very supportive but couldn't bear to talk about sam/look at photos after. Think it was cos for her she felt loss of grandson and powerlessness at seeing her child grieve acutely.

and am also completely with you on the abortion thing.. for some reason I never thought of what we did as abortion as its not like we'd have gone through the procedure if there was any other option .. that said I do get very bothered now (and am so sorry about your dh's tactless friend) about peopel who pontificate about abortion - I'm sorry but if only life was that simple.

have you been in touch with arc yet? They have specialist befrienders...

Hopefully pregnant - I hope the bleeding etc is calming down for you - it is so grim to have to deal with that physical side of things on top of all the emotional stuff. I think you are v brave going back to work so soon, but hopefully it is a job that you enjoy and therefore gives you a bit of time out. Glad too that you are giving yourself space to grieve.
We chose Annie, really just because we liked the name and it's simplicity. Also Ann(e) is my middle name, my mil's middle name and my aunt's middle name - we only really thought of that after we had chosen it, but it felt right and comforting somehow....
Re telling your friend - I did find it really hard to tell anyone in the first weeks after we lost Annie - luckily as I said before some of my friends knew already. With those that didn't, and I felt I needed to tell, I either found myself blubbing down the phone when they caught me at a wobbly moment (which was quite often in those early weeks), or I found the only way I could do it was to write an email - which took me for ever to get the wording right, and I had to take a deep breath when I pressed Send...
Re parents - mine were wonderfully supportive, but I know my mother found it v v hard to see me so sad, and she said it was the first time she had had to watch me go through something she had no experience of, and so she was at a loss as to how to deal with it. She found the ARC booklet v helpful though - they do do a booklet for grandparents - I think our parents were from a v different generation, where it wasn't done to talk about anything like this... That's another reason it is perhaps easier to talk to friends - they are from the same generation as us...
I must stop - I think I am competing with Cadmum with the novel writing...

Hopefully: I only have a brief moment but I wanted to say that I was glad that the novels are somewhat helpful.

This is just a short hello and a nag about getting medical help if you are still bleeding heavily.

Thinking of you.

Habbibu and Poppy, thanks for the support. I am so sorry that you had to lose your babies at 21 weeks; by that stage you must have really bonded with them, and it must be so much harder. I think I tried not to allow myself to believe too hard in my baby until the 12 week scan, partly due to all the bleeding that had come before, not at all because I imagined what might happen, and maybe that helped.

The bleeding, Cadmum: I was fine yesterday all day, just normal flow, and then overnight it was back to incredibly heavy - which is odd for overnight - soaking through two pads within an hour. Then today back to normal, so I think it's just going to be like that.

Sam/Poppy, I cry whenever I try to get in touch with Arc. I have determined to do that and talk to my best friend tomorrow. I can't believe I haven't already, but I seem paralysed somehow apart from here where I can't shut up!

On another topic, DH and I have had a severe cough for weeks and he went to the GP today who diagnosed pleurisy and chest infection and signed him off and gave him drugs. Now I am battling on with the same infection and chest pains, plus the bleeding, but havent been to the GP. Men!!!

Hope you're all doing okay and thank you again xx

aww hopefully pregnant - hugs for you ... the talking on here really helped me too - found it very hard to talk to dh , therapist or anyone for a while (dh even took to looking at posts on here to get through to me as was in such a state-that is really sad isn't it ).

As for the timing thing I think its all pretty hard - I suppose it was a shock at 20 weeks as had previous scans with no hint of an issue but frankly there is no good time to find this out is there? you're still bonded with baby and hoping for it etc and then to have to take this type of decision is just devestating.

Do call ARC - they are so lovely and so used to it that won't mind if you cry. and to your b/f -remember crying over my wine with mine afterwards whcih was most therapeutic.

and lol re your comment re dh - do take care of yourself. Thoroughly recommend acupuncture, vistamins etc to help get back on track.

Back to bleeding terribly again, and now big chunks of what looks like tissue - it isnt like blood. Is that right, do you think?

Hi Hopefully pregnant
Just in case you haven't already, I suggest you call GP or the hospital re bleeding - I think I was always advised to call if the "chunks" were larger than 50p pieces. I did pass some pieces of tissue which I found hugely alarming and distressing, and called my GP straight away, and she checked everything out, which gave me the piece of mind. So with it being Friday pm, suggest you pick up the phone or get your dh to, so you don't spend the whole weekend worrying. Am sure it is fine, but with all these things, it is really important to be on the safe side. Poor you with cough etc as well, but as poppy says, do look after yourself - you must be exhausted - I hope you are sleeping ok.
And I agree with poppy - arc will be v supportive through the tears - I could hardly get the words out when I called them, and it made me feel instantly better, just to actually ahve someone I could cry to who knew what I was talking about....
xx