3rd mc last week - should they have tested the remains?

[tryingnottoobsess]

Hi,

I had my 3rd mc confirmed last Tues and had a D&C on Weds at 8.5 wks

I asked them to test the remains, but to cut a long story short, several docs refused, and I eventually gave in when they showed me the written guidelines (my baby was too small for the guidelines)

However, I have read the Lesley Regan recurrent mc book again this weekend, and it looks like testing the remains can be vitally important in ruling out certain causes of miscarriage.

So does anyone know if I can go back to the hospital and ask again for them to test the remains (which I have heard they keep for 28 days)??

I know it's a bit of a random post, but has anyone got any experience of this? Or had any useful outcome from having the remains tested?

Part of me feels that this might be miscarriage insanity making me hyperfocus on one detail... but on the other hand I don't want to miss an opportunity if it might help avoid going through this vile experience again.

I called the hosp this morning, but got too emotional to push for anything useful (damn I hate this!) and she vaguely said she'd ask a doc to call me tomorrow...

any words of advice welcome

So sorry for your losses. I'm a bit surprised at the refusal to test after your 3rd m/c. The RCOG guidelines define recurrent m/c as "the loss of three or more pregnancies." Their guidance states: "In all couples with a history of recurrent miscarriage cytogenetic analysis of the products of conception should be performed if the next pregnancy fails." - so, in essence, it rather suggests you have to have 4 to be tested, which seems a little tough, to say the least. I don't have experience of this, I'm afraid, but hope someone who knows more will be along soon. Have you and your partner have blood tests done?

Have no advice, just wanted to say how sorry I am that you are going through this again

I hope you manage to get something done, keep pushing if you have it in you, they can only say no.

Thinking of you xxx

TNTO. Write a letter to the practice manager of your GP surgery, GP and to the complaints dept of the hospital. Ask for verification as to why your baby was not considered for testing.
If you write then even if you are crying then you will still be able to write.

Make appointment to see your GP because you will need to be refered to Gyne team at hospital anyway. Make them see how the continual loss of your babies is beginning to have a real effect upon your emeotional and physical well being. Even the crappest GP will refer you, just to get rid of you out of his surgery.

I have a small idea of what you are going through. Stay strong. The doctors will help you, it is just a case of getting to the right one.

Thanks guys.

Habbibu, that info is really useful, I'm actually printing the whole document to read now. I had searched on NICE for guidelines but not found anything. No, we haven't been tested yet, but we've got our referrals for 6wks time, so the hosp has been quick on that.

Thanks NJ, you're a sweetheart

DH has just spoken (calmly, unlike me!)to the lovely sister who was there last week and she's going to find out if tests are still possible. She suspects that 6 days since the D&C might be too long as the remains may have started to decay, but she was very capable and sympathetic and I feel I can rely on her to find out the truth and not fob us off.

Thanks Ronshar (xpost, slow typer). They have already referred us, so we'll get all the tests etc, which is good. I just wish I could've persuaded them to test the baby last week.

DH just called and the sister had rung him back to confirm that it is too late now for the one last week. I'm disappointed, but pleased that we at least followed it up.

Well at least you are now being taken seriously. But you have to lose 3 babies to get there.

I hope to see you back on knicker checkers very soon.

If you havent yet find the MC avengers. Great group of ladies who have all been where you are and the support is huge. I would never have survived my 2 mc's last year as well as I have without it.

I asked for testing on my 3rd mc - the hospital I was at said it was OK, the hospital I had to have the ERPC at, didn't want to do it. They agreed in the end, and then cocked it all up by putting my baby in formalin rather than saline - and I was asking them to make sure it happened even as I was going off under anaesthetic.

They normally put everything in formalin, so unless they intend to do the tests, and remember, it can't be done.

I'm so sorry that you're going through this.

shit cmot, that's awful. I hope you got some kind of resolution after your 3mc.

That rings a bell about the formalin, so I guess maybe we'd have had no chance without persuading them in advance anyway. If it happens again, and I pray that it doesn't, nothing will get me out of that room until they agree to do it!

Ronshar, I haven't been on the avengers before, but I'll def get over there when I'm ready to ttc again. I know we will (the force is strong!) but I don't know when.

It was total crap - everything about mc3 was really, from the shouty mw, to the scan in the antenatal dept, to the junior doctor who'd just started the week before in gynae, to waiting for 6 hours for an ambulance because that hospital couldn't do an ERPC unless it was booked (a week in advance) and the other hospital in the trust could do it next morning, but only if I was transferred. And so on. It turned into one of those things where you try and guess what will happen next. Only nice people were the ambulance crew. I complained about the whole thing. They lost the complaint....

Anyway, I couldn't be bothered to wait a cycle or until I saw the rec mc consultant, and got pg straight away with what turned out to be DS.

If it happens again (and I'm praying for you that it doesn't) then just tell them that they are going to do it, and refuse anything else. Write down that they are to use saline and give the doctor the note in the anaesthetic room to remind them totally.

excuse me cmot, but f*cking hell. As if you need any of that when you're going through emotional hell anyway. I'm so pleased that you had a happy ending - DS conceived straight away. I have just looked at your profile, and he's a cutie

That has given me hope actually, as right now I can't imagine a successful pregnancy. You obviously just got cracking and got on with it!

Yup - that was totally it ! DH and I were a bit hysterical in the end as it felt like being in some sort of weirdshit farce.

Anyway, we did it, and after a very stressfull pg, we got DS who is just gorgeous. I can't imagine doing it all again - i've met people who had 7 and more mcs and just don't know how they do it

Hello TNTO, I'm so sorry to hear about your baby. I had this test last month after m/c no 3, but I had to really pester (i've read the Prof Regan book too!)

The doctor in the EPC wasn't keen on people having tests - maybe your doc is the same? She said that she wasn't sure about how useful they are in these circumstances because they can't look for trends in why the m/cs are happening, they can only look for a couple of specific chromosomal abnormalities in that one baby.

The results didn't show anything at all, but they could tell me the sex of the baby, which was helpful and sad at the same time. I still found it reassuring to "know nothing" about why it had happened again having had the test.

It is your right to ask for a test because he or she was your baby, and if it will help you with your emotional and physical recovery then you should be able to decide. Hopefully the recurrent miscarriage clinic won't find anything, or will be able to help you so that you don't have to go through this again. Good luck

PS Habbibu, that info is AMAZING - will read it before appointment at recurrent mc clinic next month. Thank you

Thanks offthecoffee... and sorry that you've had to go through this too. Finding out the baby's sex must have been bittersweet. Makes it more real, which in some ways must help, but in other ways makes it harder.

Yes they said something similar to me, that they had more chance of finding a persistent problem by testing DH's & my chromosomes.

I still would like to have known though. But I think it is time to let it go now!

So you're getting the tests next month too. Reading the stuff from Habbibu, it looks like our best bet is for no reason to be found... do you mind me asking if you're waiting till after the appt to ttc?

Reading cmot's story makes me want to go for it, but on the other hand it might make that pg more stressful in case there were tests/treatments they couldn't do while pg.

habbibu - I found my DH reading that printout last night, wonders will never cease! His head has been firmly in the sand so far in terms of getting informed.

Consultant said that there wasn't anything they couldn't test for when you were pg, and that some things actually only did turn up fully when you were pg. Their one efficiency was that they took the blood for tests whilst I was in for the ERPC, so I knew that it was in progress.

I did decide to self medicate (after some discussion with my GP) with low dose aspirin.

Its def 'best' if they find no reason - the only thing they can treat is the clotting disorders, and they have long term implications.

CMOT your hospital experiences are even worse than ours! We have been in and out of our hospital so many times now and the total incompetence of the management setup is horrific. Brilliant that you've had your little one now - gives us all hope.

TNOT, we're going to wait until after the appointments. I had the first 2 mcs close together and there were a few things which happened which I always thought may have caused them (car accident etc). This time round I was so sure that it would be fine having changed my job to something less stressful, waited 9 months for hormones to settle, given up booze and coffee well in advance etc etc etc. The fact that it didn't make any difference has made me realise that there could be a reason, and I want to know what it is. I can't face going through it all again without knowing that I did everything I could. As you said, here's hoping they don't come up with anything.

The doctor at EPC told that there is one of the tests which you can't do when you're pregnant, but that the rest are OK. the nurse on the ERPC ward said that you do have to give quite a lot of blood - I don't know if that would be the best thing to do in early pregnancy? Let's keep in touch re tests.