Trying to understand repeated bleeding - too early for positive tests - miscarriages?

[SunnyW]

I'm hoping there's someone that may have some experience like this.

I usually have very regular cycles, with clear eggwhite cervical mucus when ovulating, and with the advanced ovulation tests, get clear peak days that show up. I'm 29 years old.

I've been trying to conceive since February, and in that time have tried for 4 of my cycles - working with a known sperm donor.

I've been timing inseminations very well, many times over my fertile window.

I've been taking daily seven seas supplements for trying to conceive since December.

I have never had spotting between periods before.

For the first cycle of TTC, I started having spotting a few days before my period was due. The second day it got heavier, but was absolutely nothing like my period would usually be (much lighter and more brown), and was accompanied by what felt like a day long light cramp - like my uterus was being squeezed constantly. The bleeding got slightly heavier the next day, then I "got my period" a day early, and it was very painful. The heavy bleeding only lasted for one day, then almost immediately went to spotting - not normal for my cycle, where I tend to have two days of heavier bleeding which tapers down over 5-6 days total.

For the next 3 cycles of TTC, I've had spotting starting 5 days before my period is due and not stopping, and then when I get my period it is heavy for 1 day, then back to light spotting again. Cramping only happening on the 1 heavier bleed day.

Apart from the one cycle I didn't try to conceive in amongst this (to give myself a break), and then my cycle was normal for my body - 2 days of heavier bleeding tapering off - no spotting in between.

The problem is, all of this is happening too early for any kind of positive pregnancy test. It's too late in my cycle to be ovulation bleeding, it's the time I'd expect implantation bleeding if it were to happen. Without positive tests and confirmed chemical pregnancies, my doctor won't refer me on for further testing.

I've had a blood test to check my progesterone levels, which don't seem to have flagged up anything but I'll discuss with my doctor on Monday. I've also had swabs for STDs, which I check regularly anyway, and are all negative.

I am scared that I can't face going through this over and over for an entire year until I can get an NHS referral.

I've tried looking online for examples from other people, but all information about luteal phase bleeding, or super early miscarriages, or chemical pregnancies, haven't yielded anything that resembles this. Nor has the section on bleeding in Taking Charge of Your Fertility helped bring me clarity (apart from helping to rule out what it's unlikely to be).

I feel like I'm grieving miscarriages, but I don't even have confirmation that that's what they are, and I don't know if I can even access any support for that. It's also f*ing with me, I keep living in hope that maybe this time I'm wrong and that I'm pregnant even though I'm bleeding.

I'm so used to trying to understand what an issue could be so that I can take some kind of action, but I'm getting stumped about what I can even investigate at this point. The powerlessness is tough, and whilst I've been doing as much as possible to take care of myself and keep healthy and happy outside of this, I'd love if anybody has any ideas or relevant experiences?

Many thanks, S

So sorry you find yourself here. I’ve not had anything like your experience but I know what a worry it is to not know what’s going on with your body, especially with the emotional aspect of TTC.

Two thoughts - have you actually tried taking pregnancy tests? You can get sticks with high sensitivity (10 rather than 25 IU/L) cheap in bulk online. And also, some people find prenatal vitamins affect their cycle and potentially cause breakthrough bleeding - could this be a factor?

Good luck with the journey. I hope you find answers - and get your baby - soon.

Thank you!

I really appreciate knowing that's a possibility and will do some investigating to rule out impacts of my supplements!

I have tried taking pregnancy tests, there's one cycle where I didn't to try and not get too in my head about the process, but for the other 3 they've consistently come back negative - including ones for identifying early pregnancy. Since there's become a pattern with the bleeding, I have just started ensuring I'm testing about 6-7 days before my period is due - and then the bleeding starts the day after, so I'm giving myself the best chance to catch any possible pregnancies. I will look into bulk buying early tests though.

Super grateful for your reply

Not quite the question you asked, but we there any screening done on the donor sperm?

Nothing yet, it's something that I would request if I reach the point where the NHS will do investigations. One of them has recently had to duck out for health reasons, but I had been working with two donors, and since this has happened with each of them, the chance of it being specifically donor sperm related is reduced.

Agree less likely to be a sperm issue if you've tried with 2 donors.

Have you had your thyroid checked?

No thyroid checks so far, my difficulty is convincing my GP to try and pursue investigations - their procedure is to take action when there are 3 confirmed miscarriages, and without a positive test they seemed quite dismissive of what I've been saying. I'm trying to show up as prepared as possible so that hopefully they will help me continue to rule out possibilities.

I will ensure that I press that my luteal phase has likely shortened to about 9 days due to the 5 days of early spotting, so that at a minimum that can be looked at.

Had my GP appointment today. My progesterone was within what's considered the healthy range.

However, outside of providing that information, my doctor was dismissive and will not investigate any issues any further - the main two I spoke about were trying to understand why I now spot for 6 days before my period starts, and why my periods are so painful that I will throw up.

I didn't even get to talk through my difficulties with fatigue, ask her to use my correct pronouns and gender language, or show her the document I had written - as she had already decided that there would be no follow ups before I'd entered the appointment. Instead of answering my question about whether the spotting could indicate that my luteal phase is reduced, she told me not to think about it and just keep trying to conceive without understanding more: "to reduce stress".

She also made the bizarre statement that if my period is due, I take a pregnancy test and it's negative, that means I'm not pregnant - despite the reality that for some people it can take longer for a test to show as positive. Even though I had been avoiding taking early pregnancy tests for my own wellbeing, I restarted taking them early to see if it was possible to get a positive, in order to get the NHS to actually investigate what's going on with my body - she framed this as me overthinking and needing to basically ignore any information my body is giving me and just blindly keep trying.

I'm starting to feel like I'm losing my mind - if I "under" prepared I'm seen as though I don't know what I'm talking about and am dismissed (or I more easily get railroaded and forget to ask about all the things I want to ask about). If I write it all out before the appointment in order to try and cover what I need to, it's read as me overthinking and that I need to stop stressing etc.

My healthy expressions of disappointment or grief, that I allow myself to feel so that I can move forwards and re-empower myself, are treated as me being over-invested and that I should be more disconnected from my body so as to hope any obstacles magically disappear.

Ultimately, after years of being treated this way by my GP for various issues I've come to them with, I literally don't want to go to see them any more because I honestly don't think that they want to help me. I've even wondered if there's something written in my notes or something, telling future doctors to be suspicious of what I'm saying, or if it's just a systemic problem (especially related to genderised care).

It's also f*cked with my feeling able to go to doctors once I'm pregnant, and I've just had to calm myself by learning that it's possible to bypass my GP and go straight to the midwifery team for my first appointment if I get pregnant. I'm going to have to ask some of my trusted people to come with me, because being treated this way is so upsetting.

It's like the cognitive dissonance of my doctors, who have restrictions on what resources they can use for investigations but want to feel like they're doing "all they can", keep trying to pass that dissonance onto me. Like "you don't meet the criteria, therefore it's in your head". No matter the evidence I present that is real, physical and tangible, no matter the research I end up having to do because they won't.

I've been literally told to not try and self diagnose by other doctors - and I go to the doctors very infrequently and only when I really need to, and they keep giving me no choice but to go it alone. But also, if I show up without some kind of knowledge about what's going on, they don't ask more questions or try and help me figure it out. It's like there's some kind of saviour complex bullshit where they only like to deal with people who present a perfect list of symptoms that the doctor can diagnose - but an imperfect symptom list, or an attempt at diagnosing for yourself, and you're f*cked.

Oof. Institutions sure know how to take what was a process of joy and curiosity and hope and leave you feeling small and powerless and stupid.

Have you considered paying privately for a fertility MOT?

You'd get some blood tests, a transvaginal scan to check your uterus, ovaries and fallopian tubes, and probably a counselling session.

Likely no more than £500, you can often get a discount via an open day or similar.

Not in my budget unfortunately, NHS is my only option. If I'm still not pregnant by February then I'll be able to get a referral.

Initially you mentioned seven seas? Can the supplements mess it up and cause some premature period? Or just mess with the cycle?

(sorry if you’ve said already) can you use opk and bbt to confirm you ovulated, then you can also with some certainty know when the bleeding is occuring in the cycle as well?

Could you try something other than seven seas to see if it makes a difference?

Also I know this feels counter productive, but would taking a cycle off help? Then see if the cycle after is enough break to refresh your system?

Any update with this? I also tried 7 seas and found an increase in spotting

Yes, update on the situation!

Hugely appreciated the suggestion about the supplements, I came off them and the spotting did stop on cycles I didn't ttc. Also, my cycles went from getting shorter every month, to swinging in the other direction and getting to more like 31 days length, before evening out to my usual approximate 27/28 days.

And the supplement had been causing spotting and shorter cycles even when I hadn't tried to conceive.

However, the first cycle I started trying again, the spotting for a few days right when you'd expect implantation, leading to earlier heavy bleeding, began again. So all I can do is keep trying and go back to my doctor in March to ask for a referral.

The journey has taken a pretty major toll. Taking breaks only does so much unfortunately, I channel my energy for wanting to solve why this is happening, instead into practical baby prep. I now have quite the spreadsheet for inventorying baby stuff 😆 I also do more general taking care of myself and resting and doing other things.

Something helpful has been meeting someone that I'm really enjoying spending time with who is acting as a donor. It means that if I take cycles off from thinking as much about it, I'll still almost definitely get some attempts in.