Babies born sleeping

[RachaelGuinan]

Hi Everyone, Sadly I gave birth to our beautiful baby girl, who was born sleeping at 19 weeks 1 day gestation. In the eyes of the law this is classed as a miscarriage!!! I physically gave birth to our baby, as have many other women been through the same situation. This is no miscarriage, i gave birth to our baby.. I went through everything the same as a women who has gone full term would have. I have started a petition and would be really grateful if you would take a minute to read, sign and possibly share this petition please? I believe alot of people will agree that this law is wrong. I'd be really grateful for any kind of support or response this petition gets. Thankyou. Best wishes, Racheal x
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/615852

[IstayedForTheFeminism]

I'm so sorry for your loss.

[RachaelGuinan]

Thankyou 💔💖

[HorribleHerstory]

Hello Racheal

i am very sorry for the loss of your little girl. I hope you have people around you and support to grieve for her. She was here, and now she isn’t, and I know very well how hard that is.

I’m sorry but I can’t sign your petition. Late miscarriages are difficult I know, and I would support research in this area and a look at how a miscarriage/stillbirth is defined in law due to the ongoing improvements in treating babies born around the point of viability. But a miscarriage, however late and traumatic, is not a stillbirth and it’s not the same thing. And women suffering through late miscarriages are done a disservice by suggesting it is the same as a having a stillborn baby in the same way they are done a disservice by suggesting it is the same as an early miscarriage.

I would support a petition for awareness around the laws on later term miscarriage. I would support a campaign for awareness around the issues causing late miscarriages, their symptoms, and research into preventions. I understand it seems every woman is aware of the “safe” twelve week mark and it seems everyone in late pregnancy is aware of counting kicks and neither seem to apply to you, I do understand this issue.

you need your little baby girl to count as a real person who existed and it feels demeaning when she is referred to as a miscarriage, when she was more than that. I get it. But you can’t in the same breath say that a full term loss is the same. It’s not. I’m not saying it’s easier or harder or worse or better or anything like that. What I am saying is that it’s not the same.

I hope you find some healing with your campaign.

[Preseli]

Signed, and I am sorry for your loss

I lost my daughter at 23 weeks and 5 days in October last year (scanned and confirmed no heartbeat at 23w 5, induced on 24w 1 but I was specifically told this was a Missed Miscarriage by the midwives and not a stillbirth due to the confirmation scan being before 24 weeks... by 2 days.... (I can't blame them as they were only doing their job informing me, but that was something that has stuck with me)

This was a completely different experience from my first miscarriage at 8 weeks and I don't understand how on earth anyone can decide that anything before 24 weeks is only a miscarriage, especially as you are not entitled to take maternity leave and so in order to take time to grieve and heal you have to either be financially stable enough to either get by on a partners income or on sick pay.

I was lucky we could afford for me to take a couple of months off as I also experienced complications after (secondary haemorrhage) and I don't know what I would have done if that had happened at work, it was traumatic enough at home....

I understand there does have to be a limit but having to go through a stillbirth and it being called a miscarriage isn't something that I would wish on my worst enemy - especially as there are more reports of pre 24 week babies being born these days and being viable thanks to medical advances.

[BattenburgDonkey]

Hi OP, what gestation are you wanting to have the law changed to for it to be classed as stillbirth? That petition doesn’t say which I think could cause problems if it does reach enough signatures for being debated as there needs to be a line somewhere. I think stillbirth is 20weeks + in Australia so there are variations between countries, and I do think the laws in our county should be changed to reflect the advances in neonatal care (as babies before 24 weeks can be viable now) but it’s hard to no where that change should be.

Really sorry to hear of the loss of your beautiful daughter OP 💐

[Lillygolightly]

I have been through the same and have the same thoughts and feelings as you. As such I have signed the petition.

A miscarriage does not accurately and to be frank is not even close in terms of describing my experience. I laboured, and birthed my sleeping son, my placenta got stuck, I needed intervention to remove it, I lost an awful lot of blood, there were concerns for my life. I held my baby and spent precious time with him in the bereavement suite. I chose to have my baby cremated and I have his ashes and other than those very precious ashes you would never know he existed. I have no birth certificate, I have no death certificate and I find that very very hard to deal with.

I am so very sorry for your loss OP.

[PearCherryApple]

@HorribleHerstory

Hello Racheal

i am very sorry for the loss of your little girl. I hope you have people around you and support to grieve for her. She was here, and now she isn’t, and I know very well how hard that is.

I’m sorry but I can’t sign your petition. Late miscarriages are difficult I know, and I would support research in this area and a look at how a miscarriage/stillbirth is defined in law due to the ongoing improvements in treating babies born around the point of viability. But a miscarriage, however late and traumatic, is not a stillbirth and it’s not the same thing. And women suffering through late miscarriages are done a disservice by suggesting it is the same as a having a stillborn baby in the same way they are done a disservice by suggesting it is the same as an early miscarriage.

I would support a petition for awareness around the laws on later term miscarriage. I would support a campaign for awareness around the issues causing late miscarriages, their symptoms, and research into preventions. I understand it seems every woman is aware of the “safe” twelve week mark and it seems everyone in late pregnancy is aware of counting kicks and neither seem to apply to you, I do understand this issue.

you need your little baby girl to count as a real person who existed and it feels demeaning when she is referred to as a miscarriage, when she was more than that. I get it. But you can’t in the same breath say that a full term loss is the same. It’s not. I’m not saying it’s easier or harder or worse or better or anything like that. What I am saying is that it’s not the same.

I hope you find some healing with your campaign.

I think it’s up to the individual to decide how they feel and if a woman feels that her loss at 19 weeks is the same as a loss at for example 38 weeks then yes, it is the same. It’s still a loss of a baby - the only difference at those 2 gestation is size and weight- everything else IS the same .

The feeling of loss
The fear
The lost hopes for the future

If a grieving mother feels it is the same then it is - only she gets to decide that

[PearCherryApple]

Physically as well - it’s the same. You give birth , you have to recover in that postpartum period. Milk comes in. It is the same

[HorribleHerstory]

I understand that the OP feels they are the same. But they aren’t, not medically, not legally, not socially. Part of the feeling of helplessness and injustice the OP has perhaps relates to a feeling that her experience and her daughter has been ignored and lumped together with people who “just” had a miscarriage. I’ve felt the same in my own way. But perhaps someone who has experienced a stillbirth in later pregnancy might feel upset if I refer to my experiences as the same as theirs. Perhaps people having terminations for medical reasons might feel upset if I say my experiences are the same as theirs. Not to mention the effect of this type of law on the debate surrounding termination of pregnancy generally. These things are not the same. Second trimester miscarriage is poorly understood. Second trimester miscarriage is badly described. Second trimester miscarriage causes are under researched. Babies lost in the second trimester are no less valid or real than those lost in the third but it does not mean that a second trimester miscarriage is a stillbirth.

increase awareness of incidence, tell your story, increase awareness of causes, celebrate your daughter OP. A change in the law to recognise second trimester miscarriage (or any recognition in law for miscarriage) absolutely.

but not this as it stands, I’m sorry.