upset that people refer to ectopic pregnancies as abortion.

[lilseb]

I had surgery for an ectopic pregnancy a few weeks ago. I am physically recovering well after a simple procedure, but admittedly having a tougher time mentally - its been very distressing losing the baby.

I have been doing the standard googling everything, and I keep finding lots of references to ectopic pregnancies being abortions. Not from official sites mind, just from people chatting and usually making the point that anti-abortion laws would prevent ectopics from being treated (I'm not sure that's true). My mum also made a reference to an ectopic being an abortion which did make me feel very upset.

I am pro-choice and remain so, thats not really up for debate here. But i find the idea of what I went through being an abortion really quite painful and insulting. Everyone on the internet and in real life has only suggested that it is an abortion in a positive sense I.e no one has said that I shouldn't have been treated. It's just upsetting to be lumped in a group of pregnancy terminations which will have ended for a variety of reasons and many will have been because the woman did not want a child. I desperately wanted my baby and I feel incredibly lost without it.

In my mind, it's not an abortion because the pregnancy was never going to be viable and may well have already died - I feel it was much closer to a miscarriage. But technically the treatment was the termination of a pregnancy (again I am not sure if my baby was still alive before surgery) and I think(?) abortions can be treatment for other pregnancies that aren't viable though I don't know as I couldny tell you a single diagnosis where that would occur.

Am I just doing logical cartwheels to avoid admitting that technically what i went through was like an abortion? even though its certainly treatment for a condition which would have ultimately killed me and pro-life orgs do not count as abortion and therefore do not oppose. Am I being a bit silly to get upset by any implication that this was an or like an abortion?

I had an eptopic pregnancy last year, I had to have a termination to deal with the pregnancy.
Isn't that the only option, it can be dangerous to allow it to continue for the mother.

Abortion is actually a medical term for all early pregnancy losses. Miscarriages are referred to as spontaneous abortion. This is probably what you are reading. The term abortion is more commonly used when talking about terminations now so of course it's going to arouse negative connotations, but it's just medical terminology.

I'm sorry for your loss

There's often a confusion with the terminology which can be upsetting.

So miscarriage is medically a spontaneous abortion.

My first child was delivered early to save my life. I viewed this as having a c section. In my next pregnancy the consultant write that I'd had a termination of pregnancy at 35 weeks. I found this really upsetting even though technically that was correct.

Abortions can be carried out where the baby is likely to have a problem that will ultimately be incompatible with life or has other abnormalities, not just social reasons. Similar procedures can happen due to medical need. In the cases where there is medicsl need then (at my trust at least) the legal paperwork necessary for an abortion does not need to be completed. So if you didn't have to sign papers to show compliance with the abortion act - and I very much doubt you did - then what you had was legally and in my opinion morally not an abortion. It's surprised me in the past how important these technical definitions are when you've been through something so traumatic, but they really are important. Never feel silly about anything related to losing your precious baby.

I understand OP

It’s hard when socially we equate abortion with a choice to end a pregnancy, regardless of whether that’s accurate (which as we all know, it’s not in every case).

I would gently try to tell you though to do your best not to get too hung up on the terminology. Your grief is with your baby and so to heal that’s what you need to focus on - not external judgement. You’ve done nothing wrong and you didn’t cause this.

Ectopic pregnancies sound really traumatic and I’m so sorry you’ve gone through this

I had an ectopic, googled a lot and came across some obscure religious pages full of bile and judgement against women like me who'd been successfully treated and survived.

I was actually sick after reading how people viewed me and my situation and it affected me hugely for a while. But, I know I did what I had to do to stay alive, and that our baby would never have survived and I wouldn't have gone on to have the beautiful children I have now if I hadn't gone through with treatment.

It's helped me be kinder in general towards others and helped me to understand that saying about walking in another's shoes more fully.

Be kind to yourself x

Generally abortion/termination would be used when the pregnancy is not viable or no live birth is expected. Induction of labour is used when a birthing process is expected.

It's unusual to call an early labour resulting in a live birth termination of pregnancy, tbh. It's normally called induction of labour.

Lougle

Was that to me? If so thank you. I was very surprised to see it written both in my notes and in a referral letter to another hospital.

It wasn't early labour. It was a c section done to end the pregnancy in order to save my life. But done at 35 weeks and the baby was delivered alive.

Does that make any difference? It was quite distressing to see it written as termination of pregnancy.

Yes it was to you, BrownPaperTeddy. I guess the distinction was made because the baby would have been quite able to carry on to term if it wasn't for your medical state, so the intervention was purely for your safety rather than for the needs of the baby. If it had been for the needs of the baby, due to fetal distress, poor growth, etc., then it probably would have been classified differently.

There are countries in South America where treatment of ectopic pregnancy is illegal because of a total abortion ban. I think abortion whatever side of the debate is a very loaded word and can see why it would cause upset in some situations.

I was having exactly this discussion a few days ago.

"In medicine, an abortion is the premature exit of the products of conception (the fetus, fetal membranes, and placenta) from the uterus. It is the loss of a pregnancy and does not refer to why that pregnancy was lost.
A spontaneous abortion is the same as a miscarriage. "

It's very unfortunate that the medical application of the term 'abortion' is so wide, and can be applied to events like miscarriage; for most people, this word connotes something almost diametrically opposite.

Sincere condolences for the losses on this thread

I'm sorry for your loss, I know it can be devastating.

You probably don't want to hear this but in reference to

just from people chatting and usually making the point that anti-abortion laws would prevent ectopics from being treated (I'm not sure that's true).

It is true. In Chile the operation cannot start until the Fallopian tube has burst. Ireland also has rules, not sure off the top of my head but I think they go by heart beat.

The 'pro choice' lobby also include the morning after pill, the regular pill, contraceptive injection and the coil as 'aborticants'.

This is an area where the terms 'abortion' and 'termination' have specific medical meanings but the words are used differently in everyday speech and the line is further blurred by pro choice hard line (usually american or RC) Christians.

I'm sorry to hear you lost your baby.
If you havnt already found them, the Ectopic Pregnancy Trust is full if helpful info, and a forum.

My ecopic was many years ago. I still remember the pain, even tho I now have 2 children. Take ug easy on yourself. You have a lot of mental and physical healing to go through

Thanks for all the responses. I had no idea about miscarriages being called spontaneous abortions, or that abortions generally denote early pregnancy loss, and the comments have been gently informative.

I am conscious that most of my upset does come from the stigma towards abortion, even as someone with no real issue towards abortions.

Regardless of whether counting it as an abortion or not, I won't let anyone upset me on being treated for it - if someone believes I should have died for this, they can fuck right off.

Thanks for all the good wishes.

if someone believes I should have died for this, they can fuck right off

Is an excellent attitude to have.

Many many people undergoing abortion very much wanted a baby. It is a sad situation where the rhetoric has led us to believe that abortion is just or even mainly for termination of healthy but unwanted pregnancies.

Much love OP. You and many other women have benefitted from the ability of modern medicine to save your life when pregnancy goes wrong. Do not be ashamed in any even slight way.