Just had 2nd mmc & looking for some advice

[teaandchocolate]

I've just had my 2nd mmc - had a scan at 9.4 wks but baby died at 6/7 weeks. Thankfully I already have my DD but before having her I had another mmc which was picked up at the 12 wk scan (even though I'd had a scan at 7wks where everything was fine and a heartbeat was found). I'm having an erpc tomorrow and am generally finding this mc easier to deal with than the 1st as I have my daughter but it is pretty hideous as I've still got really bad morning sickenss which I've never had before.

I know that the nhs doesn't test for anything until you've had 3 consecutive mcs but I just feel really unsure whether I can face going through this again and I wondered if anyone more experienced in these things thought it was worth getting tested privately? I just feel that it must be more than bad luck. When I was pregnant with my DD I did take progesterone for the 1st 12 weeks as I went to a private clinic and they gave me it as a precautionary measure although later said I probably didn't need it (which is why I didn't take it this time) but I'm wondering if that could be the problem?

I think Im just freaking myself out by googling and just wanted to discuss with other people who've been through similar experiences as I don't know anyone in rl who've had miscarriages. Sorry for the long post and thanks for reading x

Hi sorry for your losses
I dont have much wisdom to share I'm afraid as only 1 mmc (scan 12wks died 8 wks) and 1 mc at 6 wks, I am now 5 wks pregnant and scared S**tless!!

Im hoping I would need to find out about tests for mc suffers, but if you can afford to go private and it would put your mind at ease for the next one it has to be worth it (less stress during pregnancy maybe)

If I could afford it I definately would have, as feel it's almost cruel thet we have to have 3 before they will try to help us.

Best of luck for the future whatever you decide.
x

i'm so sorry for your loss. I can only tell you what little i know. I too have had 2 MC, only mine are 20 years apart! nevertheless i still feel that ' what's wrong with me' thing , 'surely this isn't just bad luck' etc etc etc , even though i'm in my 40s and i know the stats. I also have a grown up child conceived a few months after my first MC. I guess a lot of women can accept 1 as we know how common MC are but over that and you start to panic/worry .
I went to see a GP about a week after my ERPC and could hardly keep it together. I said i was worried i had Hughes syndrome/ clotting problems (there is a family history of clotting problems and its on my records that my Dad has had strokes) , she did say to step away from googling, offered me counselling (which i declined) and agreed to doing some blood tests, i thought she'd said no to the clotting ones and was a bit disgruntled but she authorised a full blood count then various tests for clotting disorders and lupus. All came back clear. She also misunderstood me and thought i'd had 2 consecutive MC, she went on to say that sometimes they accept referrals after only 2 MC. Its done on a case by case basis, and given my age i guess that would be taken into account. I've not gone down that route yet and as i've not had 2 consecutive i'd feel odd/bad about saying i had.
I get the impression that there are some tests your GP will agree to regardless of the number of MC you have had. This is from what women on the conception board have said. There is also the private option. My local fertility clinic will see me as an outpatient just to have tests done , the results would get sent to my GP to interpret. This means i don't have to pay the rather large consultation fee at the clinic , pointless i'm not ever going to have IVf and just want some investigative tests done. At the moment i'm doing nothing as my ERPC was only 5 weeks ago and my cycle is all over the place. Once things settle down i should go and see my GP and ask for the tests to be done that they will do, if they won't do them and i was misinformed i will use the local clinic.
Go and see your GP though. Most likely this was just an awful coincidence. GP said the reason 3 MC in a row rule is there is because most women who have had 2 consecutive go on to have a healthy baby the third time. I hope it goes well tomorrow and let us know what your GP says about tests they will do.

my first mc may have been a MMC- it was at 12 weeks, no early scans in those days so i'll never know. This one was a MMC for certain.

Thank you for your replies, I really appreciate it. It's comforting to know other people are going through similar experiences, even though I wish none of us were!

Lola I totally get how scared you must be now as I was the same & when pregnant with my DD I was actually more stressed than when I had trouble conceiving. I know it's impossible but try to stay calm & eat/sleep well. I used accupuncture during my (successful) pregnancy and found it really helpful so maybe try that or reflexology if you can afford it-the ones that specialise in fertility usually have helpful tips too. I will cross everything for you that this pregnancy is successful.

Blackcats that is exactly how I feel- that there must be something I can do to help things. I will go back to my gp but she was so dismissive during this last pregnancy & wouldn't send me for an early scan despite the fact I was really stressing. I might see another gp and see whether they'll do tests. Otherwise I could ask them to recommend someone privately & I suppose it doesn't hurt to find out about costs. I just feel we have no money at the moment as since having dd I've been a sahm.

It's all so stressful & frustrating, not to mention, really sad. But thanks for sharing your experiences it means alot.

Thankyou tea&choc, im trying to stay positive so as not to stress too much.
:)
I hope the next GP you see is maybe a bit more understanding and helpful.
It's difficult for them I suppose as they have the guidelines as not to do/say anything before 3 consec mcs, maybe ask about taking progesterone again (as u have done it before and it was successful).
Good luck
x

teaandchocolate my local fertility clinic have their prices right up there on the website, its great as you know from the start what you're looking at. However you may get something free on the NHS.
Regarding an early scan that may have been out of your GPs hands (or she may have just not been very understanding). My local EPU have a policy of only scanning women who are bleeding and/or in pain, those who have had an ectopic pregnancy before and those who are being rescanned following an ERPC with continuous bleeding . They do not scan even recurrent miscarriers!

I had two mmc's last year - one at just over 10 weeks, after a scan with heartbeat, and next one at 8 weeks, after a heartbeat at 3 previous scans (I had a lot of bleeding hence the scans)

I'm not in the UK and although my first dr said I was just unlucky and I should just wait to see if I miscarried again (!!) I saw someone else and she ordered a full blood work-up for clotting disorders. I paid for it privately (it was 600 euros) but it might have been the best 600 euros I have ever spent and now I wish I had done it after the first mmc!!

I know it's not typically the case, but they found 3 different clotting issues with me, which mean that I have a much-increased chance of mc, but also one of the disorders they have found is dangerous in general and since then my mum and brothers had to be tested! I have been given my prescriptions and if/when I get pg again I know exactly what to do now!

My feeling is that just because the nhs does not offer investigations into something does not mean that you shouldn't have them. It is a great system, but has limitations too. And just in case you think I am loaded, I had to borrow the money from a friend and have been paying it back 50 euros a months since, so it wasn't that I had cash to burn! :) Best of luck to all - here's to some good, happy pregnancies and some bouncy babies!

Escapeartist thank you for your message, that's really interesting. I will definitely look into tests and the costs. There just seems to be so many things you can be tested for. I think that the fact I've had a healthy pregnancy in between will probably mean most doctors won't take the mcs that seriously. If they happened early on and naturally for me maybe I'd be more inclined to just keep trying but I feel like I've been pregnant for a while and just not sure how many erpcs you can have?! I also feel like it's a bit rubbish & very slow where I live now in terms of how they deal with mcs. Fingers crossed we'll all have healthy happy & successful pregnancies next time!

Hi ladies, I had my second mmc two weeks ago. Sadly, it was the second in 6 months so I totally understand what your going through and how you are all feeling. I was devastated when I found out about my second and immediately asked about getting tested as I just could not bear the thought of going through this again if it could be avoided. I should also say here that I already have a DS and had these two mmc's after. I had been told after my first mmc that they would not test until I had had 3 in a row and the fact that I already have a DS anyway made me much less likely to have an issue and just have been very unlucky. So when I had my second mmc I said that I was prepared to pay for testing if they would not give me testing on the NHS. The EPU clinic were very nice and a nurse called the consultant to see me. I think mainly because of how upset I was. He very really nice and they basically booked me an appointment for 3 weeks time and said that if I came back and said I absolutely could not bear to try again without have tests then they would offer me tests on the NHS.

I have my appointment in two weeks and I have to say whilst my head says I should have the tests done, It would mean i would have to wait at least 3 months before I could try again. Whilst 2 weeks ago I could not even think about trying again and getting back on the conception roller coaster, I am starting to feel that desperate wAnting to be pregnant again.

They did say they don't normally test after only 2 but I think it was because I was so upset the nurses did not know what to say to me and i was askin questions they could not answer so they called the consultant. I also think it was because the situation was dealt with at the EPU rather than GP.

I also asked about whether it was dangerous to have too many ERPC's too close together but they told me it would not have any affect. I did not end up having a second one though as it eventually happened naturally a week After I went to the EPU and was told at 10 weeks the baby had only grown to 6 weeks.

If testing will make you feel better about trying again then it would not hurt to enquire into testing and the costs although it might be worth a second try with your gp first and explain exactly how much this is affecting you and the prospect of trying again as well as any future PG.

Hi Teaandchocolate, I'm sorry for your loss.... there are unfortunately a lot of us who understand how you feel.

Just to make sure you (and anyone else unfortunate enough to be reading this thread because of similar circumstances) know the 'facts', the NHS will also test 3 non-consecutive miscarriages if the mum is over 35 (speaking from experience, here). I had a mmc, DS1, mmc, mmc, and now have 2 week old DS2 after investigation by the recurrent miscarriage clinic (RMC) at St Mary's in central london, on the NHS (is europe's leading RMC, so not a bad place to start if you're anywhere nearby).. Please do bear in mind, though, that even if you feel that it's more than just 'unlucky', sometimes they don't find any reason (they didn't for me, so there was nothing to treat, I just had to hope it didn't happen again). Having said that, statistics show that a mother under care for recurrent miscarriages has a better chance of a live birth, even if there is no medication / treatment involved. My girlfriend was tested privately at the same clinic, after (DS1 then) 2 miscarriages and is currently 7.5 months pregnant and all well.

I highly recommend reading Lesley Regan's book "Miscarriage: What every woman needs to know" while you're thinking about testing - i read it in the wait for my appointment (need to leave 6 weeks between erpc and start of testing for hormone levels to settle), and really appreciated knowing what was happening, and what tests were going on, and the likely outcomes... (and Professor Regan happens to be the dr i saw there too....).

Re the progesterone, there's opposing thoughts; some drs say take it, others say that by the time you know you're pregnant, it's too late to take it, and like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted. St Mary's is currently doing a major (blind) trial on their patients to see if it actually works or not (I was on the trial, but don't know if i was given progesterone or a placebo, but suspect it was progesterone).

Best of luck, our thoughts are with you...

I had two consecutive missed miscarriages, one i went to myscan at twelve weeks (although i think i should have been 14/15 weeks) and was told that the baby had died between 8 and 9 weeks, the second one, i went to a scan at at 9 weeks 2 days. and the baby had died at 8 weeks 6 days. It was heart breaking, no other way to describe it. I then went on to have another healthy pregnancy and now have a little boy who will be two in june. I also found the second mmc easier to deal with, but i think its more that you know its a possibility and when you went for your first scan you didnt realise you could be being told that the baby had died.

I always thought it was something i had done, now i know its just life being the bitch that she so is. I believe the two that i lost are now angels sitting on my shoulder, and i was told that although the died, and i believe they died, nt that it was a non-viable pregnancy, they hada a heart beat, they were alive, are now growing up, inside of me and sometimes i look at my son and wondered what his older siblings would have been like. I believe the first junior was a girl, and the second, littley was aboy. I wont forget them, i never will, but it gets easier, you learn to live with the pain,

i must admit the fact that i started bleeding 2 days before my NT scan did prepare me for the worst. I'd already had a scan in the 8th week and seen a heartbeat, this was to help reassure me due to earlier MC, statistically after that stage there was such a low chance of MC. Oh well, life is cruel at times. I can't imagine the shock of going in for a routine scan and being told the baby had 'stopped growing' and there was no heartbeat.
mayfairmummy that's very interesting. I was also told my local ferility unit might see me after 2 as i'm in my 40s. I also had some tests for clotting problems at the Gp- all clear. I'll second what you said above with this; Zita west says somewhere that women who are being treated for recurrant miscarriages- even when they have found no reason for it and there is nothing they can treat have a good chance of having a live birth after- not sure if she gave stats, she put it down to the woman having more care and attention. Without knowing more i would guess its a mixture of that- the holistic side, being listened to and reassured and cared for and who knows, maybe those women would have had a successful pregnancy anyway. You can't tell. Does tie in with women who have acupuncture or reflexology and find it helpful, the person you see is caring, they listen and then they treat.

i left off the end of my sentence - I can't imagine the shock of going in for a routine scan and being told the baby had 'stopped growing' and there was no heartbeat when there had been no warning at all that something was wrong.

no warning and/or no prior experience.

interesting, just read some amazon reviews of prof regan's book and it says a MC after seeing heartbeat is most likely the result of chromosomal abnormalities. This is what i suspect in my heart is true, and given my age most likely. Its also what most healthcare professionals have said to me. Better keep up the supplements to help with egg quality then!

Everyone thanks so much for your replies. I had the erpc yesterday & I think it went well & I feel ok today just a bit sore & emotional. I managed to have the procedure privately as it's covered by the policy we get through my husbands work & the nhs here makes you wait around a week. Anyway the consultant was lovely & v experienced & I get a follow up appointment so will ask him about possible tests then & whether he thinks there's any point.

Blackcats - he also mentioned the fact that statistically, closely monitored pregnancies have a higher chance of success. And my one successful pregnancy was very closely monitored up to 12 weeks. So I think I'm going to have to (for peace of mind if nothing else) replicate that - take vitamins, have reflexology, take progesterone & get lots of scans. At least I'll feel like I'm doing something.

Mayfairmummy - thanks for that info. I've heard of prof Reagan but don't live in London anymore and am not over 35. I hope I am just unlucky.

I had no signs at all with either of my pregnancies that they weren't going to work. In fact with this one I had such horrendous morning sickness I briefly worried I was pregnant with twins! (ironic). It is very cruel isn't it and it's just not openly discussed. I know so many other mums but hardly know anyone who's had a mc and noone who's had a mmc at a scan. I guess I don't really like talking about it as I hate people feeling sorry for me. Which is why it's so good I can talk to you on here.
Oh also the dr yesterday said they'd send the 'tissue' for testing so I really hope that shows something. Although he said it often doesn't.

Mylittlemiracle I'm so sorry for your losses that must have been so awful for you. Sounds like our DCs are nearly the same age-my DD is 2 in july. I guess we were probably going through our mcs at the same time. To be honest I try not to think too much about the babies I could have had and try to focus on the fact that if it wasn't for the first mc I wouldn't have my amazing DD. However at night I do think about then and have a bit of a cry. In fact have been crying reading all your stories...although that could be the aftereffects of anaesthetic & pregnancy hormones!!

Oh and Mayfairmummy- massive congratulations on your new arrival! Must be so special for you & thank you for taking the time to respond to me x

Mylittlemonkey so sorry your going through such a hard time. I'm glad though that youre getting good care & attention though. I feel that by the time I see a dr my emotions will probably be more under control and I won't feel so desperate which might me a good thing I suppose. Would you mind letting me know what they said about the tests? I just be really interested to know what is the norm and maybe what I could ask for? Only if you don't mind. Good luck with it all. I hope you do find some answers....or just have a successful pregnancy!!! Maybe you could also try accupuncture or reflexology?! I'm definitely going to give it a go as have nothing to lose...except the money!!

How are you getting on teaandchocolate? I hope you are ok (well as an be expected). Of course I will let you know. I have my appt next rues so will message you after. I do remember them saying that the tests they can do are much more comprehensive than those that are offered privately. I am not sure whether they mean the tests the NHS does or that clinic but I will ask. I know they also said they would scan as well to look for anything that might be preventing a successful PG. They said they would have to wait until at least 6 weeks after the mc and then your first period after that before they could do the tests so this appt will be to go through what tests can be done and which would be right for me but I will try and get as much info for you as I can.

hi mylittlemonkey, thanks for asking after me. I'm doing ok I think although feel really tired today as not been sleeping well and am still quite emotional. Yesterday was my first 'normal' day and I saw people who don't know about the mc. Think maybe I did too much though as got quite sore and tired. Its such a strange situation, I'm not sure what to do with myself! I'm hardly bleeding at all though which is good but disconcerting as I bled loads after my last erpc. Hoping its a good sign though as don't want to start panicking about something else!

How are you feeling about your mcs now? Have you found any ways of dealing with them or are you just focussing on getting your af and your next doctors appointment? Hope you're doing ok. thanks so much for letting me know about your appointment. xx

Sorry I have not got back to you earlier have had internet issues. You sound very much like I felt just nit knowing really what to do. I tried to keep myself busy really doing things i havre been meaning to do for ages but not got round to or watching some mind numbing tv just anything to distract. I avoided people for over a week as just could not face anyone even told family not to come round as just did not want to hear all the well meaning advice and being told ' you will be pg again before you know it' when I knew how slow each day of my last pg felt just desperate to get to that holy grail 12 week scan.

I also decided to try and look forward rather than looking back and try and start enjoying all those things I had before this as I felt I had really put things on hold for the past 6 months whilst I had been trying to get pg such as a big night out with DH, getting back into exercise (had some weight to lose from last pg as well), booked some spa trips with girl friends, some long weekend away to look forward to and having some nice days out with DS you the zoo and parks make me feel so grateful for what I already have.

I am much better now although I still have have quite down days. My next door neighbour is pg and she was due 4 weeks before my first pg so seeing her and ntt other friends who are all due around my first due date is still difficult. I really would love to give you some wonderful pearls of wisdom that will make you feel better and cheer you up but I am safraid it's a healing process that takes time and it's only natural to feel upset and grieve. You are always welcome to chat whenever you need to.

I had a natural mc this time but least time I had erpc and like you only bleed for a few days and body seemed to get back to normal quicker. I have still been having bits from mc up until a few days ago.

The most important thing is to look after yourself and allow your self a few treats such as a little pamper our buying something nice our even just a new lipstick. It's the little things that help and just taking each day as it comes. are you still off work, if you do work?

thanks for your message and the advice. I am trying to avoid people a bit, especially those that don't know about the mc but its difficult and sometimes I feel fine but then a couple of hours later I'm miserable again. I presume that hormones aren't helping and my body is just recovering.

Luckily I work from home so have been doing bits here and there and actually 'enjoyed' working yesterday and having a break from seeing people and doing anything (when you have a toddler its nice to just sit down for a bit isn't it?!!). I will take your advice and have decided this week I'm going to eat what I want and try to relax as much as possible and then after that I'm going to get healthy and start doing some exercise and might book some spa treatments or reflexology (which I hope will help with my rubbish hormones as well). I totally agree that having my DD has made this much easier to deal with than my 1st mc when I convinced myself I was never going to be able to have children. I have also decided we need a holiday but I think DH will take a bit more pursuading...!

I had a week off work and like you really enjoyed my first week back as it was nice to have something else to concentrate on. Do you have any friends or family you enjoy spending time with that live away from you? Even a weekend staying with them will do you good. We went to stay with my sister and her kids the weekend after I returned to work and it really did d me the world of good just to have some drinks and a good laugh and talk about other things. It did also make me more determined not to let this put me off and try again seeing my DH having such fun with my sisters kids as I really want him to have a sibling to play with.

Have you thought about ttc again yet? Or do you still want to see about getting some tests done first? just reading your original post again, I do remember the consultant did say that recent research showed that actually the progesterone Given to PG women did not actually make much difference to whether they retained the PG or not but I will ask again about that when I go back on tues.

I haven't really got family to visit but think I'm going to push dh into going away for a weekend as think that would be nice and we might as well spend money now we're not saving for a baby.

I'm really not sure re trying again. I definitely want to wait a while but that might be taken out of my hands anyway as last time my cycle took ages to return. I will wait until after my next af definitely. I'm also now not sure about tests either but will hopefully speak to my dr about that anyway. I think I'd take progesterone just to be on the safe side although I agree it probably made no difference. But the view that monitored pregnancy has more chance of success seems to be widely held so it's worth a shot. To be honest I don't feel very sure about anything at the moment! Yes I'd love to know how your appt goes on Tuesday, thanks so much xx

I hope you have managed to pursued your DH to go away somewhere. Got af this morning so few tears on way to work but at least it seems my cycle has kicked back in quite quick. It's been 27 days since first day for mmc although I am sure I have not ovulated as have been doing opks since got -ve hpt. I just hope that I do this cycle then at least I can check whether I am back to normal cycle. Back on the fertility roller coaster!