I'm not sure where this question goes....miscarriage query.

[architien]

I have a friend who 3 weeks ago at her first scan was told that her baby had stopped growing at 7 weeks and they couldn't see a heartbeat. She has been holding back from medicalised management of passing the baby as she still thinks there's a chance the baby is alive. She has the medical appointment booked soon but doesn't really want to go ahead with the management.
I suppose I didn't know where to post this to get advice for her. She is understandably quite cut up about it. I want to help her.
-Is there a chance that the baby is still alive?
-Is it dangerous to prolong waiting for it to pass if there's no chance at all of the baby still being alive?
-Can I help her or advise her in anyway other than offering my shoulder to cry on?
I'd really appreciate any opinions you might have to help...

What an awful situation :-( think there is a miscarriage / pregnancy loss board over in 'becoming a parent' maybe?

Re Q1 - she can request another scan for certainty? Most Early pregnancy Units would do this.

Re 3 - hand holding, shoulder to cry on and take lovely tempting food or thoughtful little things like lavender bath soak or chocs.

Hope someone can who has more advice will be along soon.

Dont think I am one of these people who gets funny about where you post things on here (and there are a lot of those types in AIBU) but there is a pregnancy/miscarriage forum here and you may get a better response there.

Best of luck to your mate.

There is a miscarriage thread but prob get more traffic here.

There is. Chance but it's likely remote if couldn't see a heartbeat (there are people who have found it is ok but these are the exception - they were right 3 times with me). Can she ask for another scan or certainty (I always had 2 before they did any procedure)?

It's not dangerous ro wait but in my experience it doesn't do much for your state of mind. The issue tends to be with infection when there is an incomplete natural mc or occasionally after a medical procedure.

Advice - has she been given info on miscarriage association or tell her about here. There is a wealth of knowledge and experience and I truly think its Mumsnet at its best.

And re should to cry on just be there- let her talk if she need to, rant , cry etc and keep in mind that it can take months to get over it nd if she is pregnant again that she will naturally be fearful and need support .

Nature will take its course when needed and the best you can do is let her grieve and be there for her.

I've had medical MC's, natural ones and one where we were told we were MC'ing and then a second doctor asked for a portable scan and DD2 is now nearly 9.

Your probably best to do nothing at all but be there for her.

You sould like a lovely friend to post for help though.

Hiya, have been through similar, not the belief that could still be OK but can understand it . It's v v unlikely that they've made a mistake, but before the medical procedure think they'd do another ultrasound, especially if she has doubts.

After so much time, she may get a lot of pain and bleeding if she m/cs naturally. Might help to get painkillers, comfy clothes, loo roll etc ready, but the health services should be able to explain what is "normal" and what needs to be checked. The main issue may be if she starts bleeding heavily and having pains away from home, travel anywhere too far away might be best avoided.

I wouldn't offer advice, unless she's skipping medical appointments, in which case would encourage her to attend them. The m/c association has helpful info for friends (including on "what not to say").

I had a wee look but I didn't want to post in pregnancy or childbirth (lots of understandably concerned ladies there and I really didn't want to trigger any upset) and when I had a look in parenting I couldn't see anything.

I'll say to her to request another scan that sounds like an excellent idea. Is there a chance that the baby is still ok does anyone have any advice on this?

Is she taking any risks to her health to leave it any longer?

Sorry if TMI but sometimes a "missed" m/c like this sounds to be can be "incomplete" and bleeding / pain etc can come in waves, e.g. 24 hours, think it's over, then starts up again. Might take days or longer (if unlucky). Sometimes may even need medical procedure after an "incomplete" natural m/c (had one like this).

Don't know about risks, but the EPU should be advising her on how much time to wait before being seen again. Obviously if she has lots of pain or high temperature or illness she should go in.

x-posts thank you

The miscarriage/pregnancy loss board is in Body and Soul, rather than Becoming a Parent. But it is quite a quiet place so you will get more answers here.

If her scan was supposed to be during her 12 week scan, and the baby measured only 7 weeks with no heartbeat, then it is very likely the baby has passed away.

They used to think the longer the baby is left inside, the higher the chance of infection, but I think many doctors are moving away from that thought these days. With my MMC's I was asked if I wanted to deal with it straight away or let nature take it's course.

Don't push her to make decisions, and let her deal with this her way. Obviously, if she's at risk, the doctors will tell her. I think they should offer her another scan to confirm the miscarriage. Sometimes even the acceptance and shock of it makes everything come away. Just carry on being a supportive shoulder to cry on.

Hope she gets through this.

If the first scan showed no heartbeat it is very unlikely to be wrong as the person that scans you then requests for a doctor to see the scan for a second opinion.

Your frined could MC naturally but she needs to look out for dizziness and high temp etc incase she gets an infection.

I had a MMC - much later on though - and I wanted it medically taken care of because my best friend had let 'nature take its course' and I was horrified by her experience. I know everyone is different (I got a nasty infection after the procedure anyway so medical management doesn't prevent that) but my friend hemmorhaged badly, passed a lot of blood and clots on her own in the bathroom and had to have a blood transfusion. I was in same day and home by dinner time, sure it was awful and traumatic but I didn't want the natural process. For my friend though, she did want that, it was important to her to let the baby pass naturally, though she does say that if she knew what she would go through she would have had ERPC.

I was scanned at 12 weeks, they said my foetus had died at 8 weeks, I had another scan at 13 weeks that confirmed it and then I miscarried at 14 weeks. It was complete, I didn't need to have a D&C after that. I'm surprised she hasn't been offered another scan, she really needs to push for one

I'm so sorry but glad she has such a good friend in you. There are a lot of people here who have been where she is if she feels in need of support from us x

I think that she needs a further scan for her own peace of mind

Sorry about your friend. My 1st mc I felt the same they rescanned me a week later and still no heartbeat so they did the erpc that night. I got a very bad infection afterwards which the hospital said was down to the fact I had carried my baby dead for about 3 weeks. However I was still not convinced my baby was dead and for years the guilt ate me up that I had just let them kill my baby. My 3rd mc (2nd happened naturally) they wanted to do th erpc after the first scan I said I was not happy. So they checked my bloods. Apparently your horomone level should roughly double every 48 hours if the pregnancy is progressing normally. It took nearly a week as the the second blood test my levels had gone up a bit but not doubled they explained this was because the baby had only just died, the third result my levels were about the same as the second. But they said if I wanted definite confirmation I should wait till the levels dropped. The fourth test my levels were lower. So I went ahead with the erpc. Although it was not nice waiting psychologically I think this was better for me to be sure.
The biggest confirmation for me came when I had my 12 week scan for ds1,he was so active and no doubt he was alive. The difference from the scans from my 1st and 3rd pregnancies which were just lifeless. The guilt from my 1st years before finally lifted.
Of course everyone is different and some people are best just getting it done asap. But if she has doubts she must speak to the hosptal for her sanity sake.
Hope this helps a little. You sound like a very good friend

With my first and second mc I also had bloods taken to check that my levels were dropping

It was 4 weeks between my mmc at 9weeks and the ERPC, they would have let me go longer but I'd had more than enough

It's not impossible that they've made a mistake - one of my best friends attended a local hospital unit and was told same thing (baby not growing, no heartbeat), was given info re mc and booked into hospital a few days later for procedure. At hospital they re-scanned (after appointment with counsellor) and all was fine - her daughter is now 8.

HOWEVER, I wouldn't tell your friend so because it is highly unlikely that they have got it wrong.

I think the best thing you can do for her is just be there for her in whatever way she needs you.