No DC - Convinced of 6th MC. Handholding please...

[MsJL]

Hello there. I am currently 5+2. I had a tiny bit of spotting which I took for implantation bleeding and tried to keep calm in the middle of last week. For a whole week things were normal and I allowed myself to think that perhaps this would be our time after so much heartbreak. However, the last two days I've had tiny spots of slightly blood tinged discharge. Just now, I noticed a spot which was slightly more bloody. I don't think I can fool myself any longer. I'm dreading telling my DH as I just don't know how we're going to go through this again. It's like miscarriage groundhog day.

I know I could go for a scan but my experience is that I'd only have to wait another week for confirmation and it just adds to the stress. I have a totally unsympathetic work environment so that makes things more complicated in terms of appointments etc.

I am under the car of St. Marys - all tests come back normal and have been lucky enough to be tested for Killer Cells which again are normal.

My plan was to sit it out (unless it's very clear it's all over) and go for a scan on Monday 15th when I shall be 6+5. Although I've had pregnancies up to 8/9 weeks they've all stopped developing at 6+1, 6+2.

I can't quite believe I'm going through this again. At the risk of sounding incredibly self-indulgent, I hate my life right now.

*typo... care of St.Mary's (not car), I am not yet totally mad/illiterate.

mrsJL I don't know what to say. As for me, when the spotting starts, the pregnancies end within a week. However, I know that there are many women who have spotting and everything is OK.

Were you given any medication from St Mary's? Did they test you for Natural Killer cells? I thought that they were against the NK cells theory.

Big hug, I know the miscarriage groundhog day feeling all too well, and I don't wish it on anyone.

LAF77 thanks for replying. Mine seem to take a while to miscarry naturally (9/10 wks) so I can spot on and off for 3 weeks or more. Many friends of mine have had significant bright bleeds and they are lucky enough to have healthy children. I'm not one of those people.... on 5 occasions I've had various degrees of spotting and all 5 have been non-viable pregnancies.

St Mary's haven't prescribed anything as 'I'm normal'. We saw Shehata at Epsom which is where my NK cells were tested.

There's nothing left to test.

mrsjl someone mentioned on the recurrent miscarriage thread that the consultant that they saw, said 2 miscarriages in a row is unlikely to be just bad luck, it is just that medicine doesn't know enough about the possible causes of miscarriage. My miscarriages have been at 7,6, and 9 weeks. I am waiting for a referral to St Mary's as well. Have you needed ERPC or have they all been natural?

Please join us on the recurrent thread if feel up to it. There are plenty of women who have ben through testing and may be able to offer you some advice. I pray for your sake that you are not going through a mc.

MrsJL how awful.
I understand why you want to wait til 6+5 but I think you may risk then having another wait as at this stage they'll probably go down the 'dates might wrong, scan again in 1-2 weeks and re-assess' route, won't they?

If you waited until you were just on 6 weeks, then they should at least be able to see a fetal pole in the sac, would still probably say scan again and re-assess but the timeframe would be slightly shorter.

Or does it not matter - would you wait for it to happen naturally no matter what?

Completely understand what you mean about 'groundhog miscarriage' - I've just had my 3rd in less than a year (4th total) and it just feels relentless.

Have read your post again, and although you do have a history of spotting before MC, there is still a small chance that this spotting is harmless. If you were sitting beside me, I'd give you a big squeeze and then encourage you to go along and get the scan done, even if that is just a means to get the follow-up one a bit sooner. Very for you, especially with all those normal results. What a hard, horrible, situation.

MsJL, You were kind enough to help me on another thread. I just wanted to say how sorry I am that this is happening to you. I too know that feeling very well and it is truly horrible. I also understand your reluctance to go for a scan only to be told you have to wait. It must be very hard to have had all those tests done and feel no further forward.

I really really hope that this time it is just harmless spotting and that things turn out well for you.

MsJL i really feel for you. i know what it's like to have multiple miscarriages, one after another, after another, though i was lucky enough to have a son before all my miseries started.
one important thing you don't mention is your age. I have a friend who is in her late 30s and had multiple miscarriages. she had every test going and nothing seemed wrong. finally she had some pioneering treatment which effectively involved testing the quality of her eggs. she discovered that 90pc of her eggs were flawed - hence all the miscarriages. she had an IVF cycle for which only the good eggs were used - and hey presto! she's now six months pregnant.
Could this be an issue in your case? is it worth looking at?
One other story to encourage you - a girl i met at St Mary's, who had five, or even six, early miscarriages in a row. tests revealed nothing. she was in total despair and was pretty much deciding to give up. however, she got pregnant again unexpectedly, and though she's not done anything differently this time, or had any new treatment, she's now 21 weeks along! it can happen!
in my own case, i had four first trim MCs. Total despair and no explanation. Now have a two month old daughter, born on New Year's Day. Please keep going, if you can possibly find the courage, because your miracle could be just around the corner.

Blimey Ladies, I read back my posts and I sound very angry. I shall respond properly tomorrow. sotough I'm so thrilled about your daughter - I've seen you on posts at other times when I've sought support. xx

I'm sorry to hear what you're going through MsJL. I've only had one mc so I'm a bit out of my depth here but I didn't want to read and run. Fingers crossed that it works out for you xx

Apologies for the delay in responding.....

LAF77 Both my DH and I suspect that it's not just bad luck but it's hard when all the tests come back within the normal range. At St Mary's the advice is that I have to just keep 'rolling the dice' (getting pregnant) in order to have a successful pregnancy but it's hard to keep putting yourself through that when nothing's changed in terms of medication or finding out any explanation. I chose to manage the first mc naturally and the other 4 have been ERPC. You'll find that at St Mary's you're encouraged to have medical intervention so that they can test the 'material'.

Ladybee I'm sorry for your losses, it's especially hard when you seem to have a knack for getting pregnant as we do only to repeatedly suffer loss. I do understand what you're saying and I know I could go and get scanned now but I'm not sure that I can face seeing a heartbeat only to witness its loss a week later. It's just too heartbreaking and I thought my strategy would be to lessen the anguish of contact with doctors, scans etc this time. Although that said, I'm not sure that I can tough it out for another two weeks.

sotough Thank you for all your thoughts and positivity. I've just turned 37. Would you be kind enough to tell me about the treatment your friend received? I'm so happy for her - it must feel like a miracle. I now what you mean about keeping going but it's really hard - I thought this time was going to be our time.

At the moment, I'm just working out what day would be best for me to have the op on - it's too sad.

sotough I'd be interested to know which test that was too - is it the AMH one or something else?

MrsJL I know that St Mary's aren't that interested in the immunology theories (apart from Anti-phospholipid Syndrome), but would you consider getting the NK cells testing done privately? It's something I'm looking into at the moment. I think several women have gone to parallel clinics.

I know what you mean about the anguish of seeing a hb and then lose it - that was my experience in the last two pgs - but my consultant seems to think it's significant that we get to that stage, rather than it failing before that. I think his feeling is that if we didn't make it to HB stage, then it's more likely to be a chromosomal issue that doesn't allow it to develop to that crucial stage. Whereas if it gets to that stage and then goes wrong, for him then it's more a pointer to something like clotting, hormone etc (i.e. a problem with me rather than it).
It sounds so clinical and detached but I feel that I'd rather find out what's going on in more detail.
For example, in my next one I'm going to ask for regular progesterone tests to see whether that might be a factor. Feel terrible assuming that it will still go wrong, but if it does I at least want some knowledge out of it that might help in the long run IYSWIM.

By the way, another lady on a pg after mc thread was absolutely convinced she'd lost her pg with all the bleeding she'd had - went for scan and it's fine so far. Do you still feel convinced it's all gone wrong again? I really hope for your sake you're wrong. Big hug.

Oh sorry, just scrolled up and saw you've had the NK cells done already and they're normal. How heartbreaking.

Ladybee Your consultant sounds amazingly supportive and clearly takes the time to talk things through with you. We've had heartbeats for three of them. Including the last one which we know was chromosomally abnormal. I wish you all the very best - you've had such a tough time in such a short space of time. It's so devastating when you can't actually be happy at a positive pregnancy test. My DH looked scared when I told him I was pregnant again but I suppose the reality of our situation elicits that type of reaction.

In terms of being convinced it's all over, it really is a case of experience over hope. If I felt significantly different to the other pregnancies and wasn't bleeding then I could start to believe the outcome could be positive. Even so, I'm just dreading going for the scan and the sonographer being quiet ans then saying "It's not good news......"

MsJL I empathise, I really do. It is so hard when you have been through the negatives so many times before, you can't believe it will turn out positive and be the miracle. I wish you comfort and strength in these difficult times. You sound so strong in your posts.

That is terrible that you have to wait for another week to get a scan. Would you want to bring it forward? I relate to your feelings about minimising scans and contacts with doctors. I don't know how I will ever be able to walk into my local EPU again when my time comes for the next one.

I take it both you and your DH have had the tests done for kariotyping and they have come back clear? Do you know how many of your mcs are related to chromosomal abnormalities?

I'm sure either of my local EPU's would scan me whenever I want. I just can't quite face it. I've had three successful 6 weeks scans and when we've had the follow up at 8 weeks, development never got much further than when we saw out little ones two weeks earlier so that's my thinking in waiting for 7 or 8 weeks as I've never had a heartbeat at that stage. Does that make sense?

We've had karotyping and have come back 'normal'. The last two pregnancies were chromosomally abnormal which Prof Regan tells me is incredibly uncommon - she sees this as a positive thing. So I'm thinking that I'm clearly a freak of nature (I am kind of laughing as I type this) if this is a third one in a row (6 in total).

MsJL, i am so sorry that you are going through such a distressing time. I have had 5 mcs (going through no 5 at the moment) and i have managed to have two successful, but very problematic pregnancies. My tests have always been normal, progesterone a bit low but thats it. My consultant thinks that i definately have a problem and despite not having any positive test results i have been treated with aspirin, heparin, progesterone and hcg injections. Worked with my dd2, didnt work on this one. They think implantation is the problem with me and the tx for that is aspirin and heparin plus a few other things thrown in for good measure just incase. I would say to them to give you everything just incase it might help if it cant do any harm. It is good that the last two were chromosomally abnormal in a way because that is a clear reason for those not to have continued but it is soul destroying when it happens over and over again. I have gone through a fertility clinic, i live in Ireland. I am asking for a hysteroscopy to be carried out too as i am now thinking about scarring on the uterus as a possible cause as i have had a d&c in the past.
My fingers are crossed for you and i really hope you get good news at your scan. It is really a terrifying time when you have been through this so many times.

Traceymac2 what a terrible time you've had. I'm so sorry you're experiencing another loss now. it's so hard.

It's really interesting that consultants in this field can have such varying approaches. St Helier and Epsom talk about 'belt and braces' which is what you suggest in terms of the successful treatment of DD2. However St Mary's (London) couldn't be further from that. You're not even prescribed a whiff of aspirin unless it's empirically proven that it will be beneficial to you. Which I do understand in many ways but it's hard to find positivity for future pregnancies when nothing is changing. I don't know about hcg injections (although you're the second person to mention them in the last week).

Am thinking of you at this difficult time. Thank you for your good wishes.

MsJL - I too unfortunately can understand that feeling of miscarriage groundhog day. I wish there was a way of knowing what is the right way to go with RMC. I am confused by the number of different treatment regimes suggested by the different consultants too. I have been to different places (including StMary's) and also been told different things. It is so hard to go through. I have had 10 losses but also 3 livebirths. The last 9 miscarriages in a row, and no clear answer like you (other than age!) as to why it is happening. It makes it even harder to know what to try or not to try in terms of treatments.

I hope that you are wrong and that this current pregnancy works out for you, but I also know that instinct kind-of tells you whether it is working or not. I can't offer any help for you but to say, you are not alone in this and hope that knowing that you can come here and communicate with people who understand what you are going through helps.

My best wishes for you.

MsJL how are you doing? Have you had another scan or will that happen next week?

Hi there LAF77 thank you for checking in on me. I have a scan booked for Monday. Am already feeling sick at the thought of it. I will be between 7+5. This is such a roller-coaster. Even though I'm suspecting the worst I still have moments where I think 'well maybe' - it's going to be so hard on Monday. I really must try not to swear at the sonographer.

How are you? Have you got an appointment with St Mary's yet? x

I had 7 MCs before having my first baby at 37, so can completely empathise. It's so horrible to have it happen after seeing a heartbeat and to not be able to do anything about it. Will be thinking of you Monday.

FWIW I now have two healthy DCs after going the low dose aspirin route.

StillSquiffy you are now my shining beacon of hope (is that too much pressure?!). I'm so sorry that you went through the horrendous experience of 7 losses and my heart goes out to you. How amazing to have two little people on your life now.

I'm assuming that you were tested for all the usual things and that they came back normal. Did you only start the low dose aspirin for your eighth pregnancy? Did you self medicate or was that under the guidance of a consultant. I am self medicating at 150mg a day as a previous TEG test was borderline and this was the dose suggested then.

Did you change anything else for your successful pregnancies? Had you ever had an explanation for any of the non-viable pregnancies? I'm sorry to ask you so many questions. I really appreciate you for sharing your story.

good luck for Monday MsJL I hope that this time it works out for you. I'll be thinking of you and hoping that it looks good for you. Let me know

I still don't have an appointment date yet for St Mary's. I know it has "only" been 4.5 weeks since my appointment with the local consultant. It is driving me to despair though. Another cycle to come and go with no idea when I will be seen by the clinic. I worry that my file has been lost and I will be delayed again waiting for it to be sorted out. It is one small step in my journey to having a baby and I can't even take it yet. I imagine the worst case scenario in all situations because it is what seems to happen.

The one year anniversary of my first mc is coming up in 3 weeks, I have to see a relation who is imminently due which is the same time as I would have been with my second, and my birthday is in a couple of months. Then I realise that I could get to the appointment and they have no diagnosis or treatment for me anyway. My last miscarriage was 3 months ago and I haven't "gotten over it." I was driven to crying and screaming earlier this week as I just couldn't take it anymore. Not having a timeline is killing my soul.

MsJL, I tested for everything, and everything came back negative. 4 of my MCs finished around 7 weeks, 2 lasted till 11 weeks and 1 lasted until 13 weeks.

I was advised to do low dose aspirin (despite coming up negative in tests) because my obstetrician thought it could not possibly do any harm to try it (always stopped at around 7 months I think). I was only on 75mg per day. The only other thing I did differently was avoid people like the plague if they had coughs/colds, because one of my MCs happened directly after catching a heavy cold and I think it was related.

TBH the first successful PG was very hard and I ended up buying a doppler so that I could hear it's heart 6+ times per day. Second successful PG I almost enjoyed.

Good luck

MsJL - Good luck for Monday. I can totally relate to the fear of going for a scan. I could hardly walk down the corridor to get the scanning room last time round, my legs were shaking so much.

I really hope it's good news for you.