need some friends

[aMuminwaiting]

Hi there
I had my second miscarriage in October and despite being much earlier than my first I'm struggling even more. I wouldn't have thought that was possible. But here I am. One of my oldest friends is expecting twins when my second baby was due; I can't bare to see her. She understands and has been great. I miss her but I just can't do it, if you saw me you'd realise why. My brotherinlaws new wife announced her pregnancy two weeks after we lost our second baby. My DH's family all thought we should be over it by then anyway. I can't believe how lonely this is. My DH and I asked for some counselling but instead my husband was given antidepressants and I was told to go online and join a forum. We were so low before Christmas (in laws told us they'd be spending Christmas with brotherinlaw and his wife rather than us as planned) we thought why are we going on? But we still have hope for a happy future. I'm on CD30 right now and have not ovulated. I just want my baby. My husband has just fallen out with his mother again today. She wanted us all together for dinner and when he said we can't be around her right now she said "its not her problem, it's yours". We know that losing two babies is our problem. We just hoped our families would try to understand.

Hi,

I'm afraid I don't have any personal experience of your sad situation but I didn't want to leave your post unanswered. I think your husband's family have been terribly insensitive- afterall, who are they to try and put a time scale on your grief?

Could you go back to the doctors and ask for counselling? These forums are good but talking face to face with a professional may be really beneficial.

I really hope that you eventually get the outcome that you are clearly desperate for.

Good luck for the future x

Sorry, I too can't offer anything else in he way of advice - I just wanted to let you know I don't think you're in the wrong, and you and your husband should just keep together, not worry about others (even family) x

Hi, sorry that you are going through this. I just wanted you to know, that what your MIL said was very insensitive, considering she has also lost 2 grandchildren through your losses :(.
It is true, only a woman who has been through a mc can understand the pain of another woman's loss. My own sister made crude comments after my second mc, so I stopped telling her after that, as I would rather go through the pain alone, than hear stupid comments from her. She had 3 healthy pregnancies so has no idea what I have been through. I know it's the hardest thing getting comments like this from people who you'd think would be there for you - but like I said, unless you've experienced it yourself, you don't understand, and I have learned that I don't expect them to understand and just get on with my life.

Unfortunately, such is the NHS system, they don't consider miscarriages a problem until you've 3 miscarriages in a row - which is pretty shit, as far as I am concerned. However, I am sure they provide counselling as I was offered it after my second mc. Could you go back to your GP and ask for counselling, as it sounds like you are really low right now. I am sure sharing your feelings with someone who can help you collect your thoughts and make you look at life in a positive light will help you immensely.
I really hope you get through this, and ofcourse forums like this are always filled with women who have been through the same things as you; you're really not alone - so if you feel talking on here will help, then please do - someone will always be here to listen.

Thanks everyone. It really feels that my inlaws don't see our babies as their grandchildren. The way they talk and act its as though they were just an idea of a babies but not real. I said to my DH today that I'm so glad we have their photos in our bedroom because otherwise maybe I'd think I dreamed them up! But there they are, tiny little babies with names and bright futures that we'd planned out for them and now we have nothing. Well not nothing, you're right we have each other and I'm so grateful for that.
I hate seeing my poor DH so low, he feels like a failure to his family. I've had it with them now. All they do is put him down anyway so you're probably right, we're probably better off just the two of us. We have our best friends to elan on when we need cheering up (they are overworked at the moment!)
We both just wish we could pack up our stuff and our dog and go far away from here. But you can't escape MC by moving can you?!
Thanks for talking to me. It's so good to know there's people out there who don't think I'm a selfish misery who's indulging in self pity.

Hi
I'm so terribly sorry for your losses and for the fact you have such vile in-laws too.

I have had one mmc in Dec 10 and although my in-laws have been fine, in that they just carry on as normal, my SIL announced her 1st pregnancy a few wks after I'd mc. Her baby is due the month after mine was. Like I said we are all on good terms but I am really hurt that she is pregnant so soon after and wasnt even trying. I'm not upset with her, just upset. I never imagined how much losing an unborn child would hurt, it's unbearable attimes isn't it.
What hurts most is that my baby's due date is going to pass in a fluffy cloud of baby happiness for all my in-laws! They won't even remember there would have been a new edition to the family on that date and it makes me feel rubbish so I can only imagine how terrible and angry and hurt you are. Good luck to you I hope everything works out for you soon xx

Hi LyraBelaqua, what you said all hits home with me. Well apart from not being upset with your SIL. I actually don't like her and never have so it would be hard to be happy for her even if my babies had lived. But I know what you mean about the dates passing by and bring hurt that no one remembers. My DH said to his mum that we know it's not her problem but we feel like the pregnancy is being rubbed in our faces and we can't cope.
The birthday meal we were invited to for his mums birthday happens to be when we lost our first baby. We knew this was always going to be a hard time and we knew there would be minefields to hurdle with family members expectations of us. The other thing I don't like is being put in awkward situations and knowing that everyone is watching and waiting for my reactions.
Maybe the problem is that my DH and I have been doormats with both sides of our families for so long that know we are finally putting our own wellbeing first it's shocked them.
At Christmas even though we were effectively dumped, we still bought DH's brother and sister in law baby clothes to in a gesture to say "we know it's happening, we're pleased for you but please leave us alone". In return we got some out of date cookies and brownies that were left over wedding favours from a couple of months before. My older brothers wife gave birth last week and I haven't seen them at all throughout the pregnancy. I've told them why and they seem t get it.
I hope that when they look at their newborn and feel an overwhelming rush of love that they'll realise we felt exactly the same, only our babies were dead and we couldn't do anything to change that fact. I hope they'll think it but I know they won't.

aMuminwaiting I can really sympathise and I want you to know there are others here to support you who have gone through the same thing.

I have lost three pregnancies in the last year, and it is really difficult - the second one was particularly hard, not sure why but it was kind of confirmation that this was not just bad luck, it was very, very bad luck. With that one it got to eight weeks and we'd seen the heartbeat and I think that's why it was harder.

I am lucky to have an understanding family - my sister has just had her first (IVF) baby (so she knows what it's like to struggle to conceive etc) and my SIL is pregnant with her second child (I am godmother to her first). I find it hard to be at family gatherings - so spend as little time as possible at them at the moment - but they are really understanding, and the time we do spend together we appreciate a lot.

It is so, so hard.

But you absolutely must put your needs first.

Take gentle care of yourself.

Thank you so much. I needed the confirmation that we are doing the right thing putting ourselves first for once.
I really wish I had my big sister here. She'd have mopped up my tears. There's been so much loss these past few years it feels like it will never end. But you're right, there are so many people here who are in pain.
I feel the same as you, that no matter how many times my GP or consultant tell me "it's bad luck, there's no reason you won't go on to have a healthy pregnancy", I know better. I'm angry that I will never experience a normal' pregnancy like all my friends and family. I had bleeds early on with both pregnancies. Some how my first hung until 21 weeks but there wasn't a week that went by where I felt he was 'safe'. There's friends of friends on facebook who's only concern is how quickly they can go out on the town when the babies popped out. I can't imagine being so blase.
Right now I'm wondering when my bitch period will show. My monitor said I haven't ovulated and I'm up to CD31 at the moment. Wish it would sod off so I can get trying again and hopefully ovulate this month!

By the way hairylights, can I ask if you are trying again? My GP has strongly advise we take a few months off before we have breakdowns but neither of us want to wait. Months not trying are months I definately won't be pregnant and it feels like a waste. I think it would make us more stressed rather than less!

aMuminwaiting I have had 2 MCs in the last year and I know how utterly devastating they are and mine were earlier than yours . I lost my first at 9 weeks and my second at 10 (that was when I found out there was no longer a heartbeat). I was very angry after the first and cried every time another friend got pregnant. With the second MC I saw the heartbeat at 8 weeks but my dates didn't add up so wasn't surprised when the heartbeat was no longer there at 10 weeks. I was left very depressed by the second MC. I am lucky as I have a DD, but I found looking after her so very hard as all I wanted to do was cry. Finally I was referred to the Women's Health Counsellor at my local hospital, she is wonderful. I felt it was great to be able to cry and tell her all the things that were running through my head. I would try and see if you can speak to the one at your local hospital.

No one else, unless they are going through what you are, will understand what you are going through. My mum ,who has been fabulous and provided me with lots of support, keeps saying ridiculous foot in her mouth things. I am sorry you are not getting the support you need from you ILs.

With regard to trying again, I was all over the place but in the end it took 3 months for me to get my period again. By that time I was desperate to get pregnant and decided to go for it as like you I could not bear to waste a moment. But only you know how you feel. Surprisingly I got pregnant straight away and am now in the terrifying position of wondering each day whether everything is ok. It is still early days. Also, the month I got pregnant was the month that my ovulation sticks came up negative, so you do never know.

Take care of yourself (hug) xx

Hi amuminwaiting,

I'm so sorry to hear what a hard time you're having.
I had an early miscarriage a few weeks ago (1st pregnancy), I have felt down too, but a friend of mine has really helped. Your family are being very insensitive.

After my miscarriage I went to the hospital for an internal scan - just to reassure myself that there were no complications. The staff there were very sympathetic and supportive, and gave me contact details of the mid-wife grief counsellor. This is not something I have needed, but it may be worth you contacting your local maternity ward to ask if they offer anything like this. They maybe more sympathetic and knowledgable about support services than your doctor. Hope this helps.

We are waiting until the tests are done. I too wonder if each month we try might be the month a good egg pops :(

Which tests have you had done hairylights? I had all the blood clotting tests, lupus, thyroid..think that's it. They all came back negative. We did have to wait for my infection to completely go which felt like forever! My consultant said that next time I'll be put on low dose aspirin and progesterone suppositories even thought the blood clotting tests were negative. You're right to wait. My GP said go ahead and try anyway but if you have something that is treatable then obviously you're going to want that straight away aren't you? Hope you get some answers. The "how can we just be unlucky again?" is something that is going to impact on my next pregnancy.

Thanks Byrnsie30. My hospital haven't been all that helpful really. There was this one woman who always seemed to do my scans for both pregnancies and I found her really cold. But when I went in for a scan to see if the miscarriage was finally complete she saw me crying and was really kind. All the other mums and couples walked past and either looked annoyed or as one mumbled 'what's her problem?'I know the staff see this all the time and I'm just one more person but it really makes a difference when someone shows just a bit of compassion. I had other staff members who talked to me like I was some malfunctioning machine "how do you know you've had a miscarriage if you haven't been examined?!" A: Because I scooped my baby out of the toilet bowl". or "Have you lost all of the product yet?" A: "If you mean my baby then yes". To be honest I think what my DH and I need more than anything is to have another pregnancy to concentrate on. And if things turn out the same way again then I know we'll need counselling to stop a full breakdown!
KTDace you've given me hope that I may still have ovulated. I'm keeping (almost) everything crossed and it's not really over until evil AF shows up.

Hi again.

The month I was pregnant (before I knew I was ) I had progesterone test on day 21, which came back at 48 ie: normal.

I have also been tested for Lupus but I don't have it.

I think the recurrent MC clinic will test us both for chormosomal defects and for thrombophilia (clotting disorders).

I also want to have an AMH test as I'm forty three almost, and a day 3 FSH/LH test. I get the feeling I may have to go private for them.

Anyway I'm seeing GP next week to ask as the consultant said the Recurrent MC clinic won't do them.

It's good that you have been tested after two miscarriages most NHS trusts only do it after three (hence I'm now in the queue for tests).

I have still been getting positive pregnancy tests (medically managed mc was only a week ago Sunday) which is driving me nuts as I'm worried about retained products. I think I passed the pregnancy sac at the hospital, but the nurse said 'it's hard to tell if that is what it is'

They're not very reassuring sometimes are they?! I had positive tests for quite some time after the second miscarriage too. Because the first one was 21 weeks and the second 11 weeks I really thought I would be healed physically and good to go much much sooner. But after losing my first I stopped bleeding after two weeks and started trying again. This time I was ill for ages afterwards, I knew something was wrong and went to my GP who thought I was all fine. But a couple of weeks later I went to the hospital and mentioned it and they said oh yes you have an infection. I was swabbed at A&E two days after my MC and no one had checked the results. Anyway, two lots of antibiotics later and I was free from infection but my period took ages to start again. Since then I've gone from 27-34 day cycles to 40 last time and now not ovulating at all and no idea when AF will show.
At the time I didn't want them to offer me a D&C but now I wish they had because I had left over bits coming out for a long time and I'm sure that's hindered a quick recovery. Have they offered you a follow up scan to see if they can see anything left over? I had an internal scan which I wasn't looking forward to but wasn't that bad actually and gives them a much better view of what's going on in there.

Was the progesterone test to see if you needed more? So sorry you've gone through this, and so recently it must be very raw still for you.

I had negative tests a week after my (second) ERPC last time.

The first time, I bled for three days, then stopped, then twenty days later I started bleeding again (needed methotrexate) and I bled for five weeks. It was the GP that finally gave me antibiotics and I stopped bleeding within two days - the nurses at the hospital just shrugged their shoulders each time I told them I was still bleeding.

It just worries the hell out of me - all they've said to me is to do a test three weeks after the medical management.

the progesterone test was just the general day 21 test to see if you are ovulating.

I am having a really tough time of it, I feel so devastated today and I just want to go home and hide. :(

Oh I wish I could give you a hug. It's not like there's anything I can say to help, if there was I wouldn't still be in a mess as well.
I know what you mean about being fearful. I thought I was going to die twice last year and I keep thinking about putting myself and my DH through it all again. But it's not like we have a choice. If we want babies, this is what we have to do and just hope like crazy that it works this time. My hospital won't even deal with me next time because I need a consultant led pregnancy and my hospital won't offer that from May onwards. I'm petrified that I will start to bleed heavily and will then need to drive for 40 mins to get to a hospital that will help me. I lost my second at home and when I went green and thought I was going to loose consciousness my DH called the hospital and they said rush her to A&E. I got there and they left us in a boiling hot side room for an hour before someone came in. I'd gone through a whole bag of nighttime pads. I honestly thought, they're going to leave me here to bleed to death.
I'm always around for a chat. I can't stop you feeling terrible but I can be here to talk to, whenever.
Isn't the term medical management very detatched? Makes you sound like their employee.
The best advice I've had is from my Aunt, to read everything and get as much information as possible. So if we feel like we're not being listened to and we know that something is wrong we have something to back up our 'hysterical woman' feelings.

Hi aMuminwaiting, I don't have much advice, but just wanted to say I'm sorry for your losses, and that your in laws are being so insensitive at such a difficult time for you and your DH.

I had a mmc in November at 14 weeks, which was really traumatic for me and DH. When we went up to to visit his parents over Christmas (about 5 weeks after the mc), my MIL kept shouting through the kitchen for me to come and watch "One Born Every Minute" with her. "You've got to come in here and look at all the lovely babies!...They're so sweet, come see!" etc, etc. Um, no thanks. What I really wanted to say to her was, "Actually, I'd rather not, seeing as how mine just died and all", but not wanting to make a scene I just excused myself and went upstairs for a bit to have a private cry.

I think that women who haven't been through this just have zero comprehension of what it feels like. It's really too bad that your in laws can't find it in their hearts to be more caring and supportive.

It sounds like you had a really terrible time in hospital as well. That alone would be enough to traumatize someone, without all the added grief from two mc's.

Again, not much advice to give except for to cry when you need to, yet try to stay hopeful. Don't feel bad about giving yourself space from insensitive people in your family. The focus needs to be on you and your DH now. I hope that you can help each other through your bereavement and remain hopeful. Take care!

Oh my God! I'm amazed you had the strength to not throttle her right there and then. What did your DH say? I hate that bloody programme. I've stopped watching channel four because the adverts for it never end! I have to keep stopping myself from not falling out with DH over this because I feel sometimes like he's not protecting me, or standing up for me. But I can't fall out with him, he's my only true friend right now, he's the only one who knows exactly what it feels like to have lost our babies.

Thank you for being so kind. Have you managed to stay on speaking terms with your MIL? I don't know how I'm going to be able to be civil to his parents anymore. They've never given us support. He only has to be alone for five minutes and he starts getting angry about them. I think we've wasted too much time feeling guilty and we need to conserve our energy for the future.

Yeah, I wanted to throttle her, that's for sure! But to be honest, my MIL is just totally clueless where other people's feelings are concerned. It's like some mild form of Aspergers or something, very weird. She's not malicious, just doesn't have a clue. She probably thought..."Oh Mitsouko and my DS have been TTC, and here are some lovely babies, how nice...maybe that will give them hope!"

DH was appalled, but we decided not to say anything to her. She's getting on and is a bit dotty. Plus, the in laws are 300 miles away so I only see them about once or twice a year at the most. So it's easy to be emotionally detached. Your situation sounds a lot more complicated and difficult, with your DH's family nearby and being actively nasty and insensitive to you both. It sounds pretty dysfunctional, and that must be so hard on you both right now. It's really good that you're giving each other love and support right now, especially as you're not getting any of that from his family. Hang in there!

So sorry to hear of your losses. I had two in a row and felt like the world was ending! My own brother even said to me when i announced the second pregnancy 'why are you telling me so soon' i felt like he jinxed me. My mum found me hard work and me and my dh had so many rows it was untrue. What can i say, i guess sometimes people don't understand! I had a lovely necklace made after my last one with the babies birthstone it came with a lovely poem:
Tiny footprints on a mother's heart

When a baby arrives,
be it for a day, a month, a year or more,
or perhaps only
a sweet flickering spark of a tender soul,
the secret swell of a new pregnancy
the goldfish flutter known only to you-
you are unmistakeningly changed...
the tiny footprints left
behind on your heart
bespeak your name as Mother.

The company is called Labelledame and they do some lovely things.
I still get upset reading that and mine were two years ago. I think it sums up the feeling that not everyone understands that you are a mum the min you find out you're pregnant. People that think you should get over it just don't understand that sentiment.

I wish you all the luck in the world for the next pregnancy. Good things do happen i now have a dd of nearly 7mths sleeping upstairs. I thank my lucky stars everyday for her. I hope your and your partner's turn comes quickly.

You've just made me cry and I haven't done that for ages. Feels like a release. Everything you said resonates. I was so ecstatic to be pregnant and my best friend said anything can happen this early, you shouldn't have said anything yet. So many people will be upset if it goes wrong and the second time I thought feck it! I got to 21 weeks and he was supposed to be safe and he died so I will tell everyone when I damn well please.

That poem is beautiful. I had a tree planted at my local woodlands for my babies. It says 'if love alone could have saved you, you would have lived forever. I never realised how much you could love without knowing someone, but I love those babies and I miss them so much.

Thanks for giving hope.

amuminwaiting, I'm really moved by your posts, and wanted to say how horrid I think your ILs have been.

It's so hard to share in other people's joy (whether you like them or not, frankly) when you are TTC and have suffered MCs, so I think that you and your DH are wise to try to withdraw from situations that will cause you pain.

The only thing I would counsel you against is allowing your grief for your losses to embitter you against all expectant women or new mothers. I had two MCs in six months, and then spent another miserable year TTC, and the agony of it all nearly sent me demented. I'd run to the loo to cry whenever someone brought their new baby to work, or if I heard that a colleague was pregnant. I felt as if they were having the babies that were rightfully mine.

But four things happened over the course of a couple of months that changed me; I started having acupuncture, which gave me hope and the sense that someone was listening to me; I read an article about Jane Clarke, the nutritionist, who had a hysterectomy in her twenties, and went on to adopt an Indian girl, which made me realise that if I couldn't have children of my own, some good could come out of it if I could adopt women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article726867.ece; I got an appointment at an NHS infertility clinic; and I fell out with a close friend who knew my history, and announced her unexpected pregnancy marvelling at how easy it was to get pregnant when she wasn't even trying, and without even once alluding to my MCs and the possibility that I might feel sadness for myself even while I was happy for her. The realisation that I was angry with her for being insensitive and indifferent to my feelings, rather than for being pregnant was a revelation.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that other people are a bloody nightmare at a time like this. So many people mean well and put their foot in it; others just don't get it and are even more insensitive. The only way for you to cope is to try to manage your reactions to other people and their crassness, whether it's well-meaning or otherwise, so that you don't become curdled with grief and resentment and thoughts of what might have been, as I did.

I know this is hard, and what worked for me, won't necessarily work for you. You have to find your own coping mechanism to help you become stronger emotionally, and to give you hope for the future, even if that future doesn't take the form that you expect.

Every baby that is born is a miracle, but women like us need a bigger a miracle than most - and they do happen. I have two boys now and after four years now I still cannot believe my luck.

Be strong, be hopeful, be kind to yourself and avoid people who are toxic and make you unhappy.

I wish you, and everyone else who posted, well.

I think my period is finally starting. But to be honest, I've had spotting for a lot of this cycle and it's like it tries to start and then stops. I'm on CD35 and my question is, will I have an obvious period as I didn't ovulate? If it doesn't start properly I don't know when to set my monitor for day1. Any ideas?

...and I didn't mean to ignore ttalloo's post. It just said everything and I don't have anything to add other than I hope we all get our little miracles too. Having you all here to truly understand keeps me going.