Advice please from you lovely ladies

[knackered76]

I need some advice on how best to approach something and am hoping you will be able to give me some sound advice. First I have to give the history so please bear with me :)

A friend has been trying for her second child for over 3 years. Her and her dh have had all the tests and they can find no reason. I have 2 dc's already, one a similar age to hers. In the past 3 years she has gotten pregnant 5 times. 4 of these have ended in miscarriage and one had to be terminated due to severe medical problems with the baby. A few months ago we were pregnant together, due a couple of weeks apart. Mine ended in a mmc and her's in the termination. Because we were going through a tough time with our pregnancies together it was nice to have the support for each other, drown our sorrows etc. Fast forward a couple of months and I got pregnant again. She was the only person I told as I wanted her to have time to get used to the idea before I started showing. 3 weeks later and she get's pregnant again as well. Earlier this week she had an early scan due to her history and discovered it had died. She went in and had an erpc. She has decided this was the last try. I had a scan yesterday and it was fine.

I just don't know how best to approach this. I want to give her time and let her come to me iyswim but I also feel as though I want to tell her that it's fine if she finds it hard to be around me and I won't be offended (I am imagining this will go on for quite a long time, pregnancy, baby arriving, etc). But I don't want to crowd her, or her to think I am avoiding her . . . .you can probably tell I have thought quite a lot about this but have found myself going round in circles and getting no closer to the best thing to do.

Sorry this is sooooooo long but any advice would be more than gratefully received.

I am so sorry for all your (friend's and your) losses and congrats on the successful pregnancy.

I am in the same boat as your friend. I am happy for the people how have gotten pregnant around the same time as me and gone on to have successful pregnancies, I am happy to hear about pregnancy but not endlessly, because I wouldn't endless tell them how shit I am feeling and how depressed I am etc.....

Just be thoughtful and sensitive and kind. She can cope with your pregnancy and baby just please don't shove it down her throat. Ask how she is, and mean it, let her talk about how she is feeling etc.....and when she asks you how you are don't complain non-stop about pregnancy or how tricky it is to have 2 kids etc..... I am sure you won't by the tone of your message, you are a kind and thoughtful friend.

Thank you KTDace. I'm sorry you're in the same boat :( I think I will follow her lead. She avoided me today, but then that's fine. When she's ready I'm sure she'll come to me.

I'm in a similar position to you, knackered. My sister had a mmc earlier this year and has been trying to get pregnant again. In the meantime, I got pregnant and so did 2 of her sisters in law. We're all due around the same time and I feel terrible. I don't even like to talk about being pregnant in front of her and have asked my parents not to mention it either.

I feel awful for her but I'm also struggling to really enjoy my pregnancy because I feel so guilty that I'm pregnant and she isn't. Is it selfish of me to want to enjoy it?

Ugh.

Send her some flowers/chocolates/card/whatever you know she'd like. Tell her you're thinking of her and life's desperately unfair, you know she might find things hard but you're her friend and you're there for her whenever she needs you... then give her a bit of space and time to decide how to approach things.

I've suggested sending something rather than a face to face conversation as it allows her time to have a cry/scream/shout or whatever she needs to - rather than struggle to keep a smiling face on and then have to run to the loos to bawl her eyes out is the logic behind that in case you were wondering.

Wussbird - your comment actually upset me. You seem to be hinting around the fact she's unreasonable for having miscarried and put the dampners on your pregnancy in how you've worded it (I don't for a minute think you meant it that way). It's not really nice to word it like that - especially in the miscarriage forum - no one in here ASKED to be in the position we've been in. I appreciate you're venting frustration, but it's not really the nice place to do it. We're all sorry that our miscarriages inconsiderately make your pregnancy just a tiny little bit less shiny - we'll make sure we don't do it again ok?

emptyshell - of course I didn't mean it that way and in no way do I think anyone m/cs on purpose. I resent that you have implied that. I was just hoping to get an idea of how people in her situation feel about close friends/family being pregnant when they have had such a terrible loss.

With respect, you know nothing about my previous antenatal history.

I thought mumsnet would be a good place to find some kind of help. I was obviously wrong.

And your comment actually upset me too, so I guess we're even.

Sorry to hijack your thread knackered. Was hooping to benefit from advice given to you.

You're sat and complaining about the fact someone dared have a miscarriage and it ruined your pregnancy fun... on a MISCARRIAGE FORUM!!!!!

FFS do you not have an ounce of sensitivity - now not only do we get to worry, grieve, be angry, cope with everything that's thrown at us - we have to be guilty for ruining your pregnant fun as well.

Can't you see how nasty that is?! Do you have NO HEART?!

Please stop it, emptyshell. I said nothing about how dare she have a miscarriage, I said I feel terrible for her, and I would like some advice on how to go about helping her and not shove my pregnancy down her throat.

I feel similar to you on behalf of my sister - angry, worried and very, very sad.

I'm not trying to make you or anyone else feel guilty. I feel guilty for being pregnant when my sister isn't.

For the record - I've stayed WELL away from pregnant relatives. I've avoided family events, I've been the dirty little secret hidden away - JUST so I don't get accused of peeing on someone's precious fucking pregnancy.

No family Christmas, no family birthdays - just hiding away in case I upset the mother to be... want to know how it feels to feel like you have to be the embarrassed thing no one talks about, the reminder of the-woman-you-do-not-want-to-ever-be-like?

It's shit. Hopefully my relative is enjoying the glory of her pregnancy, the endless baby talk, the joy and the glow - while me and my wonderful husband hide away in the shadows.

Callous cow didn't even bother to email when we lost ours (can understand why she didn't phone or anything - I appreciate that she didn't - but she ain't even emailed or texted her bloody sibling).

I'm sorry that you've had such a terrible time, es. That is not the way that I've been treating my sister - far from it. It's precisely because I don't want it to be like this that I posted on this forum.

I think you are taking out your frustration on the wrong person - you need to get together with your family and talk to them about how you feel.

knackered definately let her avoid you til she feels better, but I would send her texts to ask how she is, because whilst I found it hard to be with pregnant people some days it was nice to know that it wasn't forgotten.

Emptyshell - I am so and disgusted at the way you have been treated and the way you have been made to feel :(

Thank you for your advice, I think you're right about not doing anything face to face. I hadn't really thought about how awkward that could make her feel (exactly why I came here first to stop me doing things like that!).

I want to give her space and let her know at the same time I haven't forgotten her pain. Someone said to me earlier that it's not my baby she wants, it's her own and she needs time to grieve for those that she has lost and now come to terms with the fact she is not going to try again.

wussbird - I understand the guilt you feel. I feel guilt at potentially being the cause of more pain for her on top of all that she has suffered. I think emptyshell makes a good point that sometimes not talking about things that have happened or avoiding talking about pregnancy (but not excessively as KTDace points out)can make a person feel even worse. Joy and sorrow are things that should be shared and in the case of pregnancy and miscarriage they are too big to ignore. In the case of my friend, it's too soon and still far too painful to talk to me about. I understand that but want to let her know that when and if she wants to talk to me I will be hear to listen. Your sister might want to feel more involved so she doesn't end up feel as though she's the reason noone talks about pregnancy around her. I appreciate it's difficult ground to navigate but maybe talking to her about how she feels about your pregnancy might help you all to find a way to work without too much guilt, anger and sorrow. Writing this and reading has also helped me to realise that I have no real idea how my friend feels at the moment about me, I am just giving her what I think I might feel in the same situation and the only way for me to know is to give her the chance, if she wants, to talk to me about it all.

Thank you once again for the replies, it has really helped me to get it straight in my head how to help her the best I can deal with her pain and loss.

KTDace and Emptyshell - I am so sorry for your losses.

My MIL did the flowers thing - it was really appreciated. Just with a note that she couldn't imagine how sad we were feeling but she wanted us to know that we weren't alone.

Was more personal than an email or a text, but with less of the feeling utterly cornered and having to paste a fixed smile on your face like you'd have to do talking face to face - so was probably the best way to handle things.

My mother, never the best with caring and fluffy stuff... sent wine :D