What is an middle school.....

[BluePotatoes]

.....and how they they work in comparison to primaries and secondaries?

We are moving to an area which has middle schools. I’ve never heard of middle schools before (so please ignore my ignorance)
I have a Y2 and Y4 (they will be starting their new schools in September so interested in Y3 and Y5 places).

I understand my Y3, who should be starting juniors, will be in first school.
My Y5 in middle school?

What’s the advantage of middle school?
Is it better for some DCs by not others?
How does this affect secondary school?
Do they still go to secondary at 11? This bit confuses me because there are some secondaries thay start at 11 and some that start at (is it 13?).

There are some primary schools close by is it better off sticking with the system we know and the DCs are used to?

The three-tier system is brilliant. The only reason the government got rid of it was due to cost.

So First school - y1-y4
Middle school - y5-y8
High school - y9-y11 (sometimes include 6th form)

It's really good because they're often much smaller (thus more attention on the pupils) and it allows the children to stay children for longer; it means that 11 year olds in year 7, aren't in the same cultural situation as 16 year olds - the year when children do a lot of maturing and are highly influential and vunerable.

Thank you. Nice to hear it’s a good system. We’re going to be on a border between 2 counties. One with 3 tier system and one with 2 tier system.
I was a bit put off by the differences (think because it’s different) but I’ll certainly consider the 3 tier system. Certainly sounds better for 11/12 year olds. And smaller schools with more attention paid to DCs is always a plus.
If we go for the three tier system are we restricting ourselves later on? What about children who want to go to one of the schools which start at 11? Do they manage to get Y9 places or do most not go to those schools?

I would love to be in a 3-tier area. they sound brilliant.

in a primary-secondary system by y5&6 many of the kids are really outgrown the primary teaching style of a single class teacher covering all subjects. they need the greater depth of separate subject teachers. however, y7 then feels very daunting being suddenly the youngest pupils in a school that goes up to y13.

by contrast in 3-tier, the middle school from y5-y8 is a brilliant half way stage with teaching and social environment well balanced between the style of a primary and a secondary for 4 years, and y9 is a much better year for making the transition to the upper level. In theory it is brilliant.

I understand there are down-sides though - because teachers who really love their specialist subject tend to want to teach it at A-Level so I am told middle schools can struggle to recruit really good staff.

We have this with schools that start at 11 in the next county as well .The DC who go leave Middle School and do so at the same time as everyone else usually rather than starting in year 9 as there wouldn’t be spaces available .

That's a good question - I'm not sure. I presume if they start in a 3 tier, then it'll probably be expected that they continue onto the highschool with their friends in that county.

But if they want to transfer over to the 2 tier secondary, - I'm not sure whether they'd have a better or worse chance of getting into a Secondary. I think you'd need to ask a local secondary. And find out from the middle school where the current students tend to go afterwards.

In the area I went to school, infants was reception to year 3, (so 4-8 years) middle school was years 4-7 (8-12 years) and secondary school was years 8-11

Where I live used to be primary, middle and high school.
Middle is yr5 - yr8. It was/is such a better system compared to primary and secondary! It's a much gentler step away from primary but without the big leap to high school. I think it enables children to grow in self-confidence as they are with children of a similar(ish) age for 4 years in a smaller setting and able to build meaningful relationships with teachers rather than move from class to class for each lesson. It's definitely a positive OP!

I live in an area where there are 2 tier and 3 tier. I really wanted 3 tier for my eldest because of all the reasons mentioned above but we went to visit and we didn't like it half as much as her (at the time) current primary school. We ended up deciding to wait it out then go to high school for y7. I would suggest visiting the schools and deciding on the schools as opposed to the system.

We're in a middle school area, and it was brilliant for ds. Ours is yr 5-7, then they go to High school in yr8. We are ruralish, so its the only realistic secondary, though for added confusion, the catholic primary transfers to the catholic secondary 8 miles away at yr7. Those who want their children to go into 2 tier in the nearest city/ go private just leave at the end of yr 6, and some children joined middle school for yr7 if their parents didn't want them to bus to the catholic secondary

I think 3 tier is ideal. The changes happen in a way far more 'in tune' with children's developmental stages.

Another way in which public school pupils are advantaged.

In my county we have two tier and three tiers.

Among the three tiers there are also different secondary start years
So infants is always reception to y3
Middle y3 to either 6, 7 or 8.
Secondary starts at 7, 8 or 9.
It's very confusing and actually is causing problems for children when moving areas.

I went to a middle school and at the time primaries didn't exist at all in my area.

Lower school, children up to age 9 - reception to Y4
Middle school, 9-13 - years 5-8
Upper school, teenagers 13-18 - years 9+

Ideal if you ask me, and a natural split, much more sensible than primary and secondary. The key stages are designed to fit primary and secondary, because there are far more schools who follow that. but lower, middle and upper works really well where we are. Our LEA is currently planning to do away with it and go over to primary/secondary, despite almost all parents objections.

Also, the middle schools tend to start teaching separate subjects with specialist teachers from Y5 so they have their form tutors, and then different teachers for the other subjects.

People go on about two-tier being better than 3-tier, but actually primary/secondary is usually 3-tier anyway, since infants and juniors are usually split up in different parts of the primary school, often in differnt buildings.

I think having to go to a massive secondary school age 11 and being surrounded by hundreds of hulking great 17/18-year-olds (practically young adults) is incredibly daunting, and far better coped with at 13.

I disagree and have moved mine out of a middle school system. By year 4 they are more than ready for the next stage but joining a senior school at year 9 means that at most they have 6 months before choosing their GCSEs. Six months to experience new subjects, sort out friendships, navigate a large school and choose options which will shape their future.

The transition to upper went very smoothly for most I know.

This is excellent everyone! Thank you. I can’t see people have had both positive and negative experiences of the system.

It does seem like a more natural split. I’m warming to it.

@dustibooks wondering which LEA you are in? I’ve been googling and there’s a lot in the news about the middle schools being squeezed at both ends by new academies starting at or ending at 11. We are looking at Worcestershire.

Not going to rule out one system or the other but will look at schools in both and pick the one that suits. I think for my Y5 DS the three tier systems might suit him. Not so sure about my Y3 DD though. Will just have to see what the schools are like. (And which ones we can get places at)

DD’s Infant school is Reception to Year 2.
No feeder or attached school next for Y3, we have to apply to the local junior schools which are then Y3 to Y6
Then secondary school.

However some schools in this are junior schools from Reception straight through to Y6

I thought you might be talking about Worcs BluePotatoes - and my town is one where the High school is opening to yr7 this September which will be interesting.

I think it's brilliant at the beginning, but can get difficult at secondary. My daughter is 13 - Year 8 - and at an 11-18 secondary, but her friends are now having to choose GCSE options to take in a school which they have not attended and where they don't know the teachers or the teaching. They do 3 year GCSEs, so that's how they start at the school; I can't say I'd be very happy with that.

We like you are on the border of both systems, and a lot of children leave the middle schools at 11 for a more conventional secondary, so that's possible too.

I went to a 3 tier system and it was fab. Round here they've almost all gone to a 2 tier and I much preferred it before

@BluePotatoes We are Bedfordshire.

We found that the middle schools crammed the KS3 work into them so they knew it by the time they went to upper in Y9, so all that many of them had to do was revise a bit, and could start doing GCSE preparation as well. The schools all worked together on it and co-operate. My dc finished school several years ago though, things may have changed since then.

I teach in a first school in Worcs and love the three tier system. Happy to PM with advice if needed.

I grew up in a 3tier system, enjoyed it so much that I now teach in a Middle school. I love the fact that Y5 come in from their Primary school all tiny and wide-eyed and excited and you can watch them grow and mature into really interesting funny characters.
I hate that the Govt are trying to get rid of the 3tier system. It works.