Has anyone improved their sleep by adding more estrogen?

[butterbum]

Another night of about 3 hours sleep and my weekend is ruined again but lack of sleep. I'll push though and try to look happy but I'm only surviving. I wake up tired but not drowsy so I don't fall back asleep even if I feel calm. I'm 48 and the sleeplessness has been bad for the past year. Been on HRT of Evorel patch and Utrogestan since 43. I started at Evorel 50 but when up to Evorel 75 when I was 46. I can fall asleep no problem but wake up early at 3 or 4 am and can't sleep again. Other issues are sore joints in my hands, sore hips, new and mild receding gums :( and terrible sleep. I am not having any hot flushes and only occasional palpitations which were bad prior to starting HRT.

My GP is not pro HRT and already thinks 75 is too much but I am thinking of just adding a bit of another patch to make it 100 to see if it helps any?

Anyone have any advice?

My GP upped my dose of progesterone by twice the dose. Apparent Nice guideline so I’m on 100 oestrogen and 200 progesterone. This makes me sleep. It’s like early pregnancy.

My understanding is oestrogen perks you up, progesterone makes you sleep. I was on the gel and did oestrogel morning, progesterone evening. This makes for lovely sleep. Now got coil plus oestrogel and still sleeping but not as well.

@Cismyfatarse Hmm I think thats true but Progesterone makes me sleepy when I go to bed but I don't stay asleep on it even at 200mg. I've been reading that estrogen can help sleep and staying asleep by increasing the production of serotonin, helping with cortisol spikes, insulin sensitivity and temperature regulation. But yes I read it can perk you up as well. I guess all I can do it try it for a week or two to see if things improve, get worse or stay the same!

@PocketSand I've tried the 200mg and it doesn't seem to guarantee sleep, one night I'll sleep 6 hours the next I'll only get 3. I'm going to try 100 estrogen and 200 utrogestan though.

I have two different progesterone tablets, each 100mg. One is quick release to get me to sleep. The other is extended release to keep me asleep.

@MooseBeTimeForSnow Interesting! Can you tell me what the extended release progesterone is called?

I've never heard of those- what is the brand?

@butterbum If you increase to a 100mcg patch the medical advice from the BMS is you should use more progesterone.

This would be 300mgs x 12/14 days for sequential HRT, or 200mgs daily for combined continuous.

It's not mandatory but if you increased your estrogen and had any spotting that was unexpected, this would usually be because the progesterone was too low.

Yeah this is good to know I can get 2 x 30 utrogestan a month so would increase to to that dose. I will also speak to my GP but am tempted to just test this out first. I spoke to a GP last year about my inability to sleep who said the because my flushes hadn't returned it wouldn't be the estrogen but I want to test if it makes a difference. I will take the 200 progestrone a night during the test.

Low testosterone can cause insomnia OP

I've read this actually. I am prone to acne, and still have an intact libido but if the estrogen fails then I might pay for a testosterone test and if lowI could try some gel if I can get it from an online pharmacy. I think hell would freeze over before my GP prescribed it for me but we will see!

Your GP isn’t “ pro HRT “?
It’s not something that a GP should have an opinion on!
Testosterone was the addition to HRT that helped my sleep.

Oh, and change your incompetent GP.

Magnesium helps sleep.

It really doesn’t, it’s overrated and doesn’t help you stay asleep until the morning

Apologies - I’m in Canada. My tablets are made by a local compounding pharmacy.

Yeah this is good to know I can get 2 x 30 utrogestan a month so would increase to to that dose.

Just checking that you have not misunderstood @butterbum

The Utrogestan dose with a 100mcg patch is 300mgs (3 x 100mgs capsules.) That's on a cycle of 14 days a month.

If you are on continuous HRT it's 2x 100mgs a day (2 capsules) .

It's best to do this with your GP's consent because

a) you will need your prescription changing as you will need more and

b) the increased dose is guidance, not mandatory as it depends on how your uterus reacts to higher estrogen.

Yes, absolutely! I use the gel and continuous progesterone (100 a day, no breaks). I’ve noticed that in the second half of my cycle (when oestrgen is low) that my sleep is negatively impacted. As I’m on the gel I’ve started using a little bit more and it definitely helps my sleep. Progesterone might make you sleepy but I think it’s oestrogen that helps regulate cortisol and thus helps that horrible nighttime panic and hotness when you wake up. I don’t know enough about the patches but you do need to make sure you’re using enough progesterone if you up your oestrogen dose.

Thanks everyone I have tried a little extra quarter of my estrogen patch last night and I did sleep a bit better, I woke up for about an hour but did eventually fall back asleep for another couple of hours which is very unusual. I will obviously need to speak to my GP about this if it continues to work over the next week or so.

It's helping me stay asleep, and also with my peri anxiety.

Hi. Op

I had the mirena coil fitted and my life changed. None of the drugged feeling you get with progesterone, just wonderful sleep for 7hrs.

Also magnesium glycinate and 100mcg oestrogen.

You def need a new GP. Mine happiley prescribed Testogel for low libido and continues to do so.

I am ok with the progesterone I have I think and am ok to increase the dose to counter any increase in estrogen. I actually tried Magnesium Glycinate and it destroyed me the whole time I was on it. I had a paradoxical reaction to it and it worsened my insomnia and anxiety. I would not have believed this unless it had happened to me but it did. I can use other forms of magnesium and currently take magnesium malate which doesn't cause any issues but doesn't help with sleep much either.

@Moveyourbleedingarse So you just made an appointment and asked for testogel for low libido? I previously asked my GP for vaginal estrogen and was told no that I couldn't keep adding more hormones. Perhaps I do need a new doctor!

@butterbum

I get 4 tubes of vaginal oestrogen a month. Plus testogel, 100mcg patch and the coil.

And yes I just asked! And she gave.

I'm so sorry your GP doesn't seem terribly well trained.

Vaginal oestrogen is safe for women with oestrogen fed cancer. It's a local hormone and stays in the vagina. Good luck!!!

@Moveyourbleedingarse I really can't believe it! I will try again when I can get the courage up! I do think my practice is a bit behind the times on these matters.

My practice is run by women, all female partners. They are all late 40s early 50s. Absolutely amazing place.