Inability to sleep is grinding me down

[RandomMess]

I’be never been a great sleeper but it’s just ridiculous now. I have been awake since 4.45am 😭

if You don’t already, can you do two pumps in the morning and one at night? If you already do this, can you switch it and try the other way? So two at night and one in the morning?

have you lost or put on weight recently? If so, this also affects estrogen levels so your HRT may need tweaking.

as counter productive as it sounds, I found after a while, 3 pumps was contributing to my insomnia. Currently trying 3 pumps one day and 2 the next. Good luck.

I recommend learning yoga nidra. Nidra is a deep relaxation state very similar to sleep in its benefits. Now if I have insomnia, I do nidra and either fall asleep (I skip the bit in the Nidra where you tell your brain you are not sleeping) or feel calm and refreshed. The best thing is, instead of fretting about insomnia and tiredness, you can just instantly switch to doing yoga nidra and get the best rest it is possible to have. next to sleep.

@Musicofthespheres After 30 years of treatment for anxiety I don’t think it would help tbh.

Regularly sleeping 4/5 hours per night for the last decade is grinding.

I do accept that laying there awake in the dark is restorative etc but some nights/days it just grinds me down. It’s shit. If I go away I barely sleep. If I fly long haul I won’t sleep there or back. Jet lag was brilliant for 4/5 days I went to bed (after not sleeping for 36 hours) and slept 6 hours solid. I felt amazing.

When I wasn’t sleeping my menopause specialist increased my oestrogen. That might be trickier for you with so little progesterone - what forms have you tried?

If you can tolerate the heat, a weighted blanket can be helpful.

Re separating the gel and progesterone I used to do this but got post menopausal bleeding which gynaecologist thought was reason. I now take both at night.

Re sleeping - I saw something on line about a new protocol for sleeping problems and menopause. One treatment is CBT for sleeping. No idea how effective it is..

I really struggle too for various reasons including menopause and chronic pain. One thing I find helps a little is a technique where using the alphabet you start listing things in your head e.g. Cities around the world - A for Athens, B for Berlin etc..... it distracts your mind if you are overthinking about something. Doesn't always work for me but it does sometimes.

Other things I have read about is how important it is to get daylight in your eyes early in the morning. It sets your circadian rhythm.

@NowtheyreonI have previously tried no screens.

I can’t exercise in the evening as it wires me up even more.

I have tried deep relaxation etc before via a therapist and I really don’t like it, it completely stresses me.

The other thing I have read is hot baths (with epsom salts) before bed and wearing socks in bed. Have tried both and do think they help. There was some science behind it.

I think there are lots of little things you can do that together might have an impact. It does sound like you have tried a lot though.

I try to listen to things (music podcasts etc) but I find it too distracting

@RandomMess i take more than the suggested amount of magnesium. I aim for 450mg of elemental, so instead of two capsules, I take three. I take them about 5pm and when I get into bed at 9pm, I'm flat out in seconds.

I also found my quality of sleep improved when I had the Mirena coil fitted, if that's an option for you.

Progesterone/utrogestan made me feel like I was being drugged the following day.

I don't eat after 5pm on a normal day either, so my body isn't also digesting a meal when I sleep.

Get an alexa

What time of the day are you taking the B12 - I hope it’s in the morning and not later in the day as it will give you energy.

my daughter has sleep issues. Are you are sure you can take melatonin with oestrogen?

you need to trigger your parasymathetuc nervous system. A good way to do this is to encourage blood from your limbs to reduce in these areas and head towards your heart. Stroke upwards (never downwards) on your arms / legs - could even try a cool pack on these areas. Do you know how people use to say count sheep to sleep? It’s the process of looking up past normal looking up (try counting sheep lying down to see what I mean) which triggers something in the brain to sleep.

I will try increasing magnesium. Can’t tolerate the Mirena coil sadly.

Weighted blanket is a no, I’m still on a sheet and a bit of 3 tog duvet in the coldest I heated room in the house.

Hate baths, don’t they work because they actually “drain” you bodily. Think my recorded is about 5 minutes sat in water. Absolutely no socks, can’t sleep with warm feet 😂 they are still out the covers!

I shall apply the oestrogen in the morning.

When I go away I take up to the maximum of 50mg Phenergen which does help but again not great to take regularly.

What’s the difference between listening to Alexa and your phone on a timer (face down with screen off). I don’t usually use my phone in bed. Podcast on, timer set. As a teen I had a clock radio, as a baby the parents parked me next to the TV! I used to have the TV on in bed and that sent me to sleep very easily but obviously then everyone says it’s the screens.

Yes B12 in the morning.

I think the pain from my arthritis has probably added to the sleep issues.

A fellow member of the 4am sleep club here. Actually 4am is good, as if one of my darling children wakes me when they go to bed at 1-2am that's me up until 5-6 ish. If I can stay asleep until 4 that's a good night. Also taking combi HRT and magnesium. I have a dodgy hip which is worse at night so when I wake the pain all I can think about.

Things that help: sleep band headphones playing white noise, a hat (I may be boiling and have both legs out of the covers but I need a warm head to sleep), and a hot water bottle on my hip which I then move onto my stomach, which isn't hurting and is already hot. I don't know why this makes a difference.

It's really frustrating. If I don't exercise daily then I won't get a good night's sleep and just feel lethargic and grouchy the next day. I try to get a good run in every other day and strength train on my days off running and it seems to work for me plus also allows me to reap the other benefits. My husband is waiting for a total hip so tends to swim which gives him that satisfying relaxed feeling later in the evening as it's a while body exercise. I think it's all about finding what works for you and combining different approaches.

@HollerWithTheRinsinSound it’s just grim isn’t.

I think DD disturbed me opening and closing her F’ng dressing table drawers at 11.30pm as I was managing to drift off (despite the repeated request not to after 11pm).

I have tried white (and brown) noise and it doesn’t work as well as listening to something I’m interested in that’s rather monotone, usually crime or cult investigations.

I’m way out the other side but once shared your experience.
What worked for me was accepting what I thought I did and didn’t like wasn’t being helpful. So I set up a new routine and stuck
to it. Nothing to eat or drink after 8pm. Bath, bed and lavender oil by no earlier than 1030, light socks on feet (it does work, no idea why) then settle for a while, gently stretching until comfortable. No book, earphones, screen or tv. If woken, do not get out of bed, reach for phone etc - albeit a piddle is allowed if really needed. Settle again, and don’t worry about not sleeping as that’ll stop you sleeping. Just repeat as needed be. Eventually you’ll change your state to be relaxed in bed. At 67 I sleep like a baby with an accepted look break around 4/5ish.

I get it OP, I really do. Ten years and counting of chronic insomnia here too. You've had some useful suggestions but they're aimed more at mild sleeplessness not bone crushing, mind zombifying all out inability to switch off and sleep type of insomnia. I'll throw my suggestion in to the hat - mirtazapine. Have you tried it? You mention anxiety so it can be helpful for that too. It's not perfect and I still have more than my fair share of two hour a night stretches, but it does help.

Do you by any chance think you might have ADHD?

@Apileofballyhoomost definitely on the 2 year wait list for 3 years so far 😂 I have an ASD diagnosis but since youngest DD diagnosed with ADHD 5 years ago both my eldest DD and I (both ASD diagnosed) can see how the ADHD female profile is completely us.

At least they are deep sleepers, I have never been 😭 even on Zopiclone I wake up the only difference is I can quickly get back to sleep.

Really I need to give up work and pour that time into exercise, healthier eating and far less stress. I need a lottery win!

@CatsPiddleI don’t think I have ever taken Mirtazapine, despite trying many anti-depressants (that funnily enough never helped with undiagnosed ND & trauma). I will discuss with my GP but as I have naturally low blood pressure it may not be an option.

Another vote for mirtazapine which has been life changing for me, sleeping for 7-8 hours a night and feeling so much better for it. I was dreading going to bed as I knew I’d be awake in the early hours and only wanting to go back to sleep just before my alarm was going off for work.
It is an anti depressant, but prescribed off label at low doses for its sedating properties: I take 7.5 mg at bedtime ( half a tablet). It’s safe to take long term.

I take amitriptyline. And magnesium. Has made a big difference.

Was worried about weight gain with mirtazapine

I wonder if amitriptyline would also help with the pain. It’s a shame they both lost constipation as a side affect.