Progesterone only? Panic / anxiety issues

[Cbpoppy]

Hi All
So 6 weeks ago I started getting waves of head surges literally out of nowhere.
2 weeks later had 2 what I believe severe panic attacks. Still very on & off with these feelings.
So i get waves of head surges, ringing in ears, pins and needles and very out of sort floaty head.
Had all the tests done. Bloods, mri, ecg & vital checks but nothing showing.
Doctors have no idea and mentioned Peri.
I'm 44.
My periods are fine. Regular, sometimes slightly earlier but only some months. Actually shorter than they were and no hot flushes.
Anxiety through roof & these odd feelings..
I had hormones checked during ovulation
Estrogen 1150
Progesterone 0.3
Both good readings but Progesterone on the lower end of normal.
Ive tried Estrogen 3 times now in patch & gel & both times sends me into a jittery high awful feeling within hours & can't sleep. Haven't even managed 2 days..
My Estrogen looks good & I think my body obviously doesn't need it.
I feel jittery even on half a pump of estrogel..
I've been looking up Progesterone though only through taking 100 utrogestn tablets daily..
I've read this can be done daily without Estrogen and rather than mini pill & having the coil..
Helpful for sleep etc?
I'm so at a loss now and just can't believe how I'm feeling
If anyone has the advice I'd love to hear

Also to add ive definitely noticed these feelings inheightened around period and just after..

I read your post with interest as I'm in exactly the same position. This is my 2nd full cycle of hrt having abandoned the first few early due to unbearable side effects. midway through the 1st full cycle my anxiety was off the charts - pounding heart, shaking, jittery accomplished by horrendous thoughts. I too, wonder if my body is having oestrogen spikes and that I'm actually in need of more progesterone. Everything I have read suggests it's the oestrogen we need, and I can't find anything on taking just utragestan alone. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try?

Not evidence based and the blood test is irrelevant and didnt need doing. The wackier end of the private sector will do this for you but no one reputable.

Hi @PippyGreen
What made you start hrt? Age?
So as you probably read mines due to some sort of panic / anxiety situation out of nowhere..
Daily feelings of awful..
Maybe peri? Not sure..
I'm 44
The estrogen literally i can't handle even over night!!
Patch & gel at only half a pump makes me sooo jittery/anxious & my head surges even worse..
I have spoken to some lovely ladies over on reddit who take just the progesterone a 100 capsule daily. Recommended by there GP as can't handle the estrogen or they appear to have enough xx

Hi, thanks for your post.it's rubbish especially when everyone else loves estrogen, but for some of us it sends us into an anxious mess. I'm old than you, late forties, and had blood tests which show im definitely peri menopausal. Main problems before going on hrt were terrible insomnia, anxiety ironically (!), Some hot flushes and night sweats, and overall feelings of flatness. My periods have been erratic for last four years, but also for last two weeks of each cycle I get terrible period type cramps, even though I often don't bleed. Not sure if relevant. I've had lots of aborted attempts with hrt, as the side effects - anxiety mainly, have been too much to handle. At first I thought I may be progesterone intolerant and they were the cause, but since switching to using as a pessary, I've been ok on the utrageston. Which leads me to estrogen dominance theory. That's useful what you said about the reddit users taking just the progesterone. I think I'm going to attempt that after I finish this cycle. See how I get on and then speak to my gp. Also wondering if the progesterone only pill might work? Do you currently take the progesterone daily or two weeks on/ off method?

@Cbpoppy Blood tests are not accurate and have no bearing on dose of HRT.

I've read this can be done daily without Estrogen and rather than mini pill & having the coil..

Have you read this on UK medical sites written by consultants? (not US as they are very different).

I have spoken to some lovely ladies over on reddit who take just the progesterone a 100 capsule daily. Recommended by there GP as can't handle the estrogen or they appear to have enough

I doubt if their GPs really know what they are doing. It's not usual practise to prescribe just progesterone. It's not licensed for that. You don't know who anyone is on Reddit and if it's all genuine.

Post menopause women do not have any progesterone. It's only there after ovulation and with HRT it's there to stop the womb lining growing too much.

You do need to give HRT more time. Two days is nothing. And it may be that your 'panic attacks' etc are nothing to do with adding estrogen and would happen anyway.

The other things you could and should try are mindfulness,( Apps like Headspace), yoga and meditation. They might help your anxiety quite a lot! Give it a try?

Hey @PippyGreen I've never gone into a full cycle of hrt as the estrogen effects me so much I stop. Even half pump gel, so sensitive 🥺
Never tried progesterone!!
Yes you could go to mini pill or even the coil with progesterone but I just couldn't help but wander if what we have could work.
I have the tablet form to take oral or vaginally
Its so hard like you said that so many love the estrogen bit & talk more about this but progesterone is the first hormone to decline and is the calming hormone of course if tolerated
Aww so least you know youve proper hit peri thats a positive to know at least..
I have no idea my periods are very regular and shorter and no flushes or anything but this panic & anxious bit is awful and I the dr just wandered if peri..
Strange you said above about period pains before period as start of year i kept having this, periods coming around 24 days & felt like I wasnt ovulating but now seems ok again, who knows

I can't tolerate oestrogel either and I'm post menopause, so I doubt I'm getting any natural spikes. And I was on it for years before I realised it was giving anxiety, so it's never settled.

I don't know what the answer is. I've come off HRT altogether except for the localised Vagirux which doesn't seem to cause issues.

I feel much better without HRT.

Hi @JinglingSpringbells
I actually spoke to a few ladies through reddit & here about the progesterone only way and there all doing it.
If you cant take estrogen or dont need it its a way to get the progesterone rather than the coil or mini pill, its not talked of much
I am going to chat with the GP to confirm but definitely makes sense to me.
It's definitely the Estrogen for me is I've tried 4 times on separate occasions and everytime it kicks my butt in a bad way & when I stop it calms..
The hormone test thing drives me bonkers because if you know youre cycle & you have bloods that day you have numbers to clarify..
The day I had bloods i was ovulating and I knew this as I suffer so bad with ovulating pains that were present. The doctor didn't mention where I was in the cycle when tested but as soon as they came through she said you was ovulating werent you, because she could see exactly my hormones being as they should be for that specific time. Estrogen high with the others low..
So to me these numbers indicate my ovulation hormone results.
My husband said to me last night which is kinda true that a GP will say hormones dont matter cos if you have this or that symptom give it a go BUT what then happens like for me is you can see from my bloods the estrogen is good and when I'm adding more my body is saying no so I'm just adding something i dont need. My progesterone was 0.3 which she said was fine for ovulating in the range but could be as high as 10 at the time so made me wander if I'm missing that piece..
I am also trying breathing exercises & walking etc for anxiety but this has been so bad & panic attacks I'm wandering maybe I need further medication

Oh and meditation, breathing etc does fuck all for jitters caused by oestrogel. The anxiety isn't in my attitude to life, it's in the hormones. It's purely physical.

I'm clutching at straws here, but if you already have the progesterone pills could you not try one to see how it makes you feel? I agree, progesterone IS the calming hormone, but it rarely gets spoken about in that context. My own gp ( and he's actually very clued up) just raved about oestrogen being the feel good hormone and the progesterone as the necessary evil. Could you see if the progesterone makes any difference to your anxiety? I find the menopause matters website good for all hrt questions too.

If you cant take estrogen or dont need it its a way to get the progesterone rather than the coil or mini pill, its not talked of much

The coil or mini pill are for contraception, heavy periods or HRT.

Micronised progesterone is not prescribed on its own for menopause.

Correct me if you find out, but my guess is the women using it on its own are doing it unknown to their GPs and have been prescribed it to take with estrogen.

Daily, without estrogen: If you have hot flashes and night sweats that disrupt your sleep, but your clinician advises against taking estrogen, there's an option to take progesterone alone. In that case, you'll be prescribed 100mg nightly as an oral capsule.
This above comes up if you put in google
It won't let me send picture

https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=71504.0

Also found this, there's lots if you look. Definitely a thing.
Just something I found looking through reddit and made me wander if anyone else had any thoughts
Thank you everyone for youre input so far xx

I've just followed your link , very interesting. So it appears that in countries such as Canada, the first line treatment for peri is progesterone only! It makes sense as that is the hormone to first drop off and NOT estrogen. I think where you'll get conflicting opinions is views from those in peri vs. Those post menopausal.

It does all appear like using a hammer to crack a walnut for those of us in peri, where our own oestrogen levels are fluctuating wildly and our progesterone levels are fast diminishing. It seems like finding the balance is key.

Hey @PippyGreen
Yes youre so right!
I just popped on to see if anyone had or was doing it too..
It seems US, Canada etc do as you said above.
I just thought if I'm missing progesterone which can cause anxiety etc, could I just use this without all the need for having a coil inserted or go down the mini pill route when I dont need a contraception as my husbands had a vasectomy.
It was actually my hubby that made me look as he said why cant you try them alone & I looked xx

@Almostwelsh
You did make me chuckle which is well needed so thank you for that ❤️
So true what you said xx

@Cbpoppy The link shows posters' opinions but not one of them is quoting medical advice in the UK.

Some of the posters on Menopause Matters are overseas and sometimes don't appreciate that the UK has a different approach.

Where they say it's 'common' to use progesterone only there is no evidence of this- they may be quoting US doctors who are sometimes naturopaths and not qualified as we'd recognise them.

Micronised progesterone can be sedating, as a side effect. Many women hate it and would do anything to stop having to use it. But that is not relevant as it's not prescribed on its own. Obviously, ask your GP if it's something you're thinking about.