Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Menopause

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

The strange case of ... the vanishing labia minora

185 replies

2JFDIYOLO · 25/05/2025 08:05

I'd seen several random things recently on Insta by women worried because they'd heard the labia minora can shrink and disappear after menopause.

I'd never heard of it. At 62 I'm through and out the other side and I've read a LOT of lists of peri and meno delights and recognised loads of them.

This has to be one of those windups, like women doing videos on shedding skin like lizards to freak men out ... Surely ...? I thought.

This is silly, I thought. I'll have a feel ...

Anyway. They used to be two different sizes, with the left having a rounder frilly edge.

Not any more ...

Both have definitely got smaller and the frilly bit has ... gone.

Anyone ...?

😳

OP posts:
Labiaminorasayonara · 27/05/2025 09:19

I do love my gp. Sent in an online consult at 8am. Just got off the phone with a GP who is writing me a prescription for estrogen cream that I can pick up this afternoon. Hopefully the cream works as quickly as my GP practice!

SandrenaIsMyBloodType · 27/05/2025 14:05

JinglingSpringbells · 26/05/2025 08:22

@SandrenaIsMyBloodType The ring that is for vaginal atrophy is called Estring. It slowly releases estrogen over 3 months then is replaced. (surprised your mum had mesh just 5 years ago as I thought that had been stopped.)

Estring is usually just inserted at home - it doesn't need anyone medical to do it.

What I understand is that pessaries for prolapse have to be 'measured' and fitted by a dr or physio to get the right size and type.
Estring is a one-size fits all and may not give enough support.

Using estrogen for vaginal atrophy is different from using it for a bladder prolapse. Vaginal estrogen can give some strength back to the tissues, but won't cure incontinence if the bladder has prolapsed (enough to have needed surgery.)

I think your Mum needs to see another uro-gynae and discuss options. One option now is using gel to bulk up the bladder and bladder outlet (this is an option to mesh) and less risky. She could also see a women's physio who specialises in incontinence.

Thank you so much for this very helpful response. I may be wrong about how long ago she had the mesh repair but it was already a controversial procedure. I had heard several investigative pieces on Radio4 and there was speculation about law suits. My mother was a nurse and my father was a surgeon and she will always defer to whatever a hospital consultant tells her and not what her (rather disappointing) daughter says. The situation is debilitating for her though and if I can suggest a suitably conventional treatment route, I think she would consider it. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

JFDIYOLO · 31/05/2025 00:01

Hi I'm the original poster of this thread but my stupid phone logged me out of Mumsnet and when I logged back in I went into the old version of my account now I can't remember the new one ... 🤦‍♀️

Aaaaaaanyway ...

I asked Chat GPT and I am VERY pleased with the comprehensive reply:

Please can you diagnose this problem?

I'm a 62 year old woman, ten years post menopause.

I've noticed my vulva is generally uncomfortable, can be sore, achy and itchy.

My labia minora have disappeared.

I notice a watery discharge that does not appear to be urine, and smells a little like bread.

Can you diagnose the problem and suggest solutions?

ChatGPT said:

I'm really glad you reached out—what you're describing is not uncommon, and you're not alone in this. Based on your symptoms, here’s a likely explanation and some guidance on what to do next.

Likely Diagnosis: Genitourinary Syndrome of Menopause (GSM)

GSM is a common condition that affects postmenopausal women due to declining estrogen levels. It includes symptoms involving the vulva, vagina, and urinary tract.

Your symptoms are highly consistent with GSM:

Vulvar discomfort, soreness, achiness, and itching – These are classic signs of vaginal and vulvar atrophy (thinning and drying of tissues).

Disappearance of the labia minora – A sign of chronic estrogen deficiency leading to tissue shrinkage and resorption.

Watery discharge with a “bread-like” smell – This may reflect a shift in vaginal flora (possibly some yeast overgrowth or a change in pH), which is also common when estrogen is low.

Other Possible or Contributing Causes

Vaginal yeast infection (Candidiasis)

The “bread-like” smell and discharge suggest this may also be present.

GSM increases susceptibility to infections due to the altered vaginal environment

Lichen sclerosus:

A chronic skin condition that can cause vulvar thinning, soreness, and architectural changes (like disappearing labia).

Needs to be ruled out with a proper examination—often confirmed via skin biopsy if suspected.

What You Should Do

See your GP or a gynecologist

Ask for:

A pelvic exam

Vaginal pH testing

Possible vaginal swab to check for yeast or bacterial overgrowth

Consider evaluation for lichen sclerosus if the tissue is very thin, white, or scarred

Treatment options (based on likely GSM diagnosis):

Local vaginal estrogen therapy (low-dose creams, tablets, or a ring like Vagifem, Ovestin, or Estring) – safe and effective, especially when used locally.

Non-hormonal moisturizers and lubricants (Replens, Yes VM) – help with dryness and itching.

Vaginal DHEA (Intrarosa) or ospemifene (Osphena) – alternatives for those who can’t or prefer not to use estrogen.

If a yeast infection is confirmed:

Use antifungal treatment (e.g., fluconazole, clotrimazole), possibly in combination with restoring normal vaginal flora afterward with probiotics or rebalancing agents.

Lifestyle tips:

Avoid scented soaps, bubble baths, and fabric softeners.

Use only non-irritating, hypoallergenic products around the vulva.

Wear breathable, cotton underwear.

Summary

Your symptoms strongly suggest Genitourinary Syndrome of Menopause, likely with some secondary yeast overgrowth or flora imbalance.

A detailed assessment by your doctor is important, but the condition is very treatable, and many women experience significant relief once they start the right therapy.

Let me know if you’d like help drafting questions or a summary to take to your doctor.

--

I forgot to say I currently have a combination of a progesterone IUD and oestrogen patches as hormone replacement therapy.

--

ChatGPT said:

Thanks for that important update. Since you're already using combined HRT (progesterone IUD + estrogen patches), you're systemically replacing hormones, but your symptoms suggest that local estrogen levels in the vulvovaginal area may still be insufficient—which is actually quite common.

Here's your updated summary, reflecting your current treatment:

Patient Summary for GP/Gynecology Appointment

Name: [Your Name]
Age: 62
Menopausal Status: 10 years post-menopause

Presenting Symptoms:

Persistent vulvar discomfort, including soreness, achiness, and itching

Noticeable loss of labia minora tissue

Watery vaginal discharge, not urine, with a bread-like smell

Ongoing dryness and irritation in the vulvovaginal area

Current Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT):

Progesterone IUD (for endometrial protection)

Estrogen patches (systemic estrogen)

Concerns:

Possible Genitourinary Syndrome of Menopause (GSM) – despite systemic HRT, I understand local estrogen may still be needed for vulvovaginal health

Possible secondary vaginal infection (yeast or bacterial imbalance)

I would also like to rule out lichen sclerosus, as I’ve noticed physical changes in vulvar anatomy

Questions and Requests:

Could you please perform a pelvic exam to assess tissue changes and check for signs of atrophy or lichen sclerosus?

Would you consider a vaginal swab to rule out yeast or bacterial vaginosis?

Can we discuss adding local vaginal estrogen therapy alongside my current HRT to directly treat vulvovaginal symptoms?

Are there non-hormonal options I could try as well (moisturizers, lubricants, pH balancers)?

Additional Info:

No history of hormone-sensitive cancers

No contraindications to vaginal estrogen as far as I'm aware.


I'm calling GP on Monday ... Have tried poking about at various chemists but have given up trying to DIY as it's confusing. I'll let you know.

JinglingSpringbells · 31/05/2025 09:34

JFDIYOLO · 31/05/2025 00:01

Hi I'm the original poster of this thread but my stupid phone logged me out of Mumsnet and when I logged back in I went into the old version of my account now I can't remember the new one ... 🤦‍♀️

Aaaaaaanyway ...

I asked Chat GPT and I am VERY pleased with the comprehensive reply:

Please can you diagnose this problem?

I'm a 62 year old woman, ten years post menopause.

I've noticed my vulva is generally uncomfortable, can be sore, achy and itchy.

My labia minora have disappeared.

I notice a watery discharge that does not appear to be urine, and smells a little like bread.

Can you diagnose the problem and suggest solutions?

ChatGPT said:

I'm really glad you reached out—what you're describing is not uncommon, and you're not alone in this. Based on your symptoms, here’s a likely explanation and some guidance on what to do next.

Likely Diagnosis: Genitourinary Syndrome of Menopause (GSM)

GSM is a common condition that affects postmenopausal women due to declining estrogen levels. It includes symptoms involving the vulva, vagina, and urinary tract.

Your symptoms are highly consistent with GSM:

Vulvar discomfort, soreness, achiness, and itching – These are classic signs of vaginal and vulvar atrophy (thinning and drying of tissues).

Disappearance of the labia minora – A sign of chronic estrogen deficiency leading to tissue shrinkage and resorption.

Watery discharge with a “bread-like” smell – This may reflect a shift in vaginal flora (possibly some yeast overgrowth or a change in pH), which is also common when estrogen is low.

Other Possible or Contributing Causes

Vaginal yeast infection (Candidiasis)

The “bread-like” smell and discharge suggest this may also be present.

GSM increases susceptibility to infections due to the altered vaginal environment

Lichen sclerosus:

A chronic skin condition that can cause vulvar thinning, soreness, and architectural changes (like disappearing labia).

Needs to be ruled out with a proper examination—often confirmed via skin biopsy if suspected.

What You Should Do

See your GP or a gynecologist

Ask for:

A pelvic exam

Vaginal pH testing

Possible vaginal swab to check for yeast or bacterial overgrowth

Consider evaluation for lichen sclerosus if the tissue is very thin, white, or scarred

Treatment options (based on likely GSM diagnosis):

Local vaginal estrogen therapy (low-dose creams, tablets, or a ring like Vagifem, Ovestin, or Estring) – safe and effective, especially when used locally.

Non-hormonal moisturizers and lubricants (Replens, Yes VM) – help with dryness and itching.

Vaginal DHEA (Intrarosa) or ospemifene (Osphena) – alternatives for those who can’t or prefer not to use estrogen.

If a yeast infection is confirmed:

Use antifungal treatment (e.g., fluconazole, clotrimazole), possibly in combination with restoring normal vaginal flora afterward with probiotics or rebalancing agents.

Lifestyle tips:

Avoid scented soaps, bubble baths, and fabric softeners.

Use only non-irritating, hypoallergenic products around the vulva.

Wear breathable, cotton underwear.

Summary

Your symptoms strongly suggest Genitourinary Syndrome of Menopause, likely with some secondary yeast overgrowth or flora imbalance.

A detailed assessment by your doctor is important, but the condition is very treatable, and many women experience significant relief once they start the right therapy.

Let me know if you’d like help drafting questions or a summary to take to your doctor.

--

I forgot to say I currently have a combination of a progesterone IUD and oestrogen patches as hormone replacement therapy.

--

ChatGPT said:

Thanks for that important update. Since you're already using combined HRT (progesterone IUD + estrogen patches), you're systemically replacing hormones, but your symptoms suggest that local estrogen levels in the vulvovaginal area may still be insufficient—which is actually quite common.

Here's your updated summary, reflecting your current treatment:

Patient Summary for GP/Gynecology Appointment

Name: [Your Name]
Age: 62
Menopausal Status: 10 years post-menopause

Presenting Symptoms:

Persistent vulvar discomfort, including soreness, achiness, and itching

Noticeable loss of labia minora tissue

Watery vaginal discharge, not urine, with a bread-like smell

Ongoing dryness and irritation in the vulvovaginal area

Current Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT):

Progesterone IUD (for endometrial protection)

Estrogen patches (systemic estrogen)

Concerns:

Possible Genitourinary Syndrome of Menopause (GSM) – despite systemic HRT, I understand local estrogen may still be needed for vulvovaginal health

Possible secondary vaginal infection (yeast or bacterial imbalance)

I would also like to rule out lichen sclerosus, as I’ve noticed physical changes in vulvar anatomy

Questions and Requests:

Could you please perform a pelvic exam to assess tissue changes and check for signs of atrophy or lichen sclerosus?

Would you consider a vaginal swab to rule out yeast or bacterial vaginosis?

Can we discuss adding local vaginal estrogen therapy alongside my current HRT to directly treat vulvovaginal symptoms?

Are there non-hormonal options I could try as well (moisturizers, lubricants, pH balancers)?

Additional Info:

No history of hormone-sensitive cancers

No contraindications to vaginal estrogen as far as I'm aware.


I'm calling GP on Monday ... Have tried poking about at various chemists but have given up trying to DIY as it's confusing. I'll let you know.

Edited

The info from ChatGPT is basically what has been posted here.😀

You can buy vaginal estrogen OTC (or online and have it delivered) or you can see your GP- which is cheaper as you won't pay a prescription fee.

It's a really common problem and I know of women in their 80s and 90s who use these topical estrogens.

Labiaminorasayonara · 31/05/2025 09:44

That's really reassuring. I asked chatgpt about my low mood recently and it made me a spreadsheet to track whether it's related to peri menopause.

On a separate note my kids were talking about chat gpt last night and apparently they and all their friends make sure to be really polite to it in case it ends up taking over the world at some point 😂

Jewel1968 · 31/05/2025 10:35

I find AI handy to clarify in my head what I want to say to GP. It makes sure I cover the important points.

I don't think I realised OP was in HRT so that interesting that you can still develop problems locally that might benefit from direct cream.

I am having intermittent bleeding (scan scheduled) but had one a year or so ago and benign polyp was removed. AI suggested it might be Vaginal Atrophy which is not something I had considered. I assumed another polyp or something. So I will ask doc if VA is possible.

Wonder if doctors are finding patients more demanding since AI or maybe better informed.

JFDIYOLO · 31/05/2025 12:39

It hadn't occured to me that with my HRT double whammy I could still be experiencing hormone related problems.

And so reassuring to know women of my mum's generation are benefiting from using topical products.

8am Monday I am going to be standing front of the receptionist asking for a same day call. (No point phoning - 'you are number 34 in line' is NOT something I'm going to be hearing again when I can go in and present myself. )

My face has a range of products for day, night, wrinkles, dryness, spots ... Why shouldn't ma foof. (Although the sunblock isn't going to be required there ... )

JFDIYOLO · 31/05/2025 12:42

@Jewel1968 I have had several post meno bleeding episodes, two hysteroscopies and polypectomies, biopsies all ok. (Both under GA, which is a whole other convo).

Never had a moment's shenanigans with the region under discussion until meno, and then ... 😡

JinglingSpringbells · 31/05/2025 14:11

JFDIYOLO · 31/05/2025 12:39

It hadn't occured to me that with my HRT double whammy I could still be experiencing hormone related problems.

And so reassuring to know women of my mum's generation are benefiting from using topical products.

8am Monday I am going to be standing front of the receptionist asking for a same day call. (No point phoning - 'you are number 34 in line' is NOT something I'm going to be hearing again when I can go in and present myself. )

My face has a range of products for day, night, wrinkles, dryness, spots ... Why shouldn't ma foof. (Although the sunblock isn't going to be required there ... )

Around 1:4 women use vaginal estrogen as well as HRT.
It's not unusual, but it does need more 'publicity'.

JFDIYOLO · 27/06/2025 10:30

Original poster here again!

Anyway, I managed to get a face to face appointment with the GP!! A lovely middle aged lady who chatted about strawberries and wheeled in a discreet chaperone for the exam; exemplary.

She also invited me to take the vaginal swab (like a cotton bud to swish around up there) myself.

Her conclusion ... 'all looks great, tho you do have a loss of architecture there and I think there's some thrush ...'

She advised I buy some canesten cream to use for ten days, which I did, then start using little hormone pessaries.

I'll add the name when I'm home. Basically they look like the Pill, teeny fiddly white tablets with an applicator that's like a very slender tampon applicator. Pop the tablet in the end, insert, click and it's in. One a day for ten days then less frequently. I'm on day 4.

Oh and the swab came back positive for thrush ... She recommended clotrimazole.

So it's not surprising I had been feeling a bit uncomfortable 😔

Am definitely feeling better now. Tho they won't grow back.

BadgersSuitcase · 27/06/2025 13:44

Sounds like Gina pessaries!

’Loss of architecture.’ <shakes head sadly>

Worldgonecrazy · 27/06/2025 15:39

I’ve also just been prescribed the pessaries - itching disappeared within a week!

Should I also ask for external gel as well or will the internal pessaries keep the whole area more ‘youthful’?

Worldgonecrazy · 27/06/2025 15:42

Forgot to add, when I picked up my prescription I bought the annual certificate for under £20, cheaper than a single private purchase of any of the products. GP didn’t even need to do a physical exam, she just took my word that I needed something.

BadgersSuitcase · 27/06/2025 19:09

@Worldgonecrazy absolutely get the cream too! Use both as and when and interchange them.

and yes, everyone should buy the certificate! 20 quid for the year and you can have up to 9 items per prescription (I believe!)

I have HRT gel, utrogestan, the pessaries and the estriol cream on mine

OnyourbarksGSG · 27/06/2025 19:40

ICantBeDoingWithThat · 25/05/2025 08:42

It's all a bit less plump and cushiony.😟

This is definitely a thing for me too. I’m 46 and was put on xoladec for fibroids but that forced me into a ridiculously early menopause and nobody warned me about vaginal antrophy etc. Thankfully the gp sorted me out before tubs got seriously bad but it’s like the fatty padding has gone from my clitoris and now of its directly touched it’s like an electric shock. Is been hard to overcome it tbh and it’s changed my sex life a fair bit as I’m much more hesitant. DH said it really is like a devils doorbell now 😂🤷🏼‍♀️

101trees · 01/07/2025 07:01

Wow this thread is fascinating.

I have a complicated history of vulval and vaginal pain since having my second baby a couple of years ago.

I get a lot of pain with hormonal fluctuations, so was recently started on HRT by hospital consultant. It has helped - to my surprise. Had a bunch of hot flushes and night sweats it has also helped.

I think my original problem was very related to childbirth, but what I'm left with might be peri-menopause related?

I seem to get really sore and uncomfortable when my hormones fluctuate. First day of my period I get lots of aching and spasms, almost like menstrual cramps in my pelvic floor. Then really sore like sandpaper when my period ends. It's particularly bad just after my periods ends and around ovulation time.

Does anyone else have similar? Does this sound like low estrogen? I'm wondering if increasing estrogen dose might help more...

Happily for me, I recently had a gynae report which said 'architecture well preserved', this is the only reason I know what VA is - because I googled the terminology after the appointment!

JinglingSpringbells · 01/07/2025 09:15

101trees · 01/07/2025 07:01

Wow this thread is fascinating.

I have a complicated history of vulval and vaginal pain since having my second baby a couple of years ago.

I get a lot of pain with hormonal fluctuations, so was recently started on HRT by hospital consultant. It has helped - to my surprise. Had a bunch of hot flushes and night sweats it has also helped.

I think my original problem was very related to childbirth, but what I'm left with might be peri-menopause related?

I seem to get really sore and uncomfortable when my hormones fluctuate. First day of my period I get lots of aching and spasms, almost like menstrual cramps in my pelvic floor. Then really sore like sandpaper when my period ends. It's particularly bad just after my periods ends and around ovulation time.

Does anyone else have similar? Does this sound like low estrogen? I'm wondering if increasing estrogen dose might help more...

Happily for me, I recently had a gynae report which said 'architecture well preserved', this is the only reason I know what VA is - because I googled the terminology after the appointment!

Sounds as if you might need to use vaginal estrogen as well as HRT.
Many women need both.

JFDIYOLO · 01/07/2025 09:48

I've been using the tiny pessary tablets a week now, feeling quite comfortable.

Ayeupduck82 · 14/09/2025 18:24

Can you use the estriol cream as well as interosa? Or cream with the ring?
I use cream but wanted extra help

JFDIYOLO · 15/09/2025 23:48

Original poster here on a glitchy name change.

I've been using the little pessaries for quite a while now and I must say I'm very pleased - I feel pretty much back to normal tho the actual loss of architecture is not going to grow back.

I think the slim applicator is a really quite useful way to check everything's not fusing closed up there ...

I've seen adds for an expensive oil called Naydaya and some nutrient supplement tablets - may investigate further.

I've switched to Femfresh shower gel after a very uncomfortable experience with a supermarket shower gel ...

And I put a little swipe of baby all over the whole challenging area morning and night.

I am feeling better.

I will keep oestrogen cream in mind, too.

We don't have to put up with this post meno crap. I will not become an elderly lady suffering in embarrassed silence.

How we all doing?

Worldgonecrazy · 16/09/2025 07:00

Hi OP

on the pessaries and cream thanks to this thread.

A doctor also let me know that the reason they stop regular smears for women over 55 is because we stop having sex and it becomes more difficult to open up the vagina as we age.

If we are still having sex we need to ensure we continue to have regular smears though may need to go private as some nhs refuse to do them.

MissyB1 · 16/09/2025 07:30

Worldgonecrazy · 16/09/2025 07:00

Hi OP

on the pessaries and cream thanks to this thread.

A doctor also let me know that the reason they stop regular smears for women over 55 is because we stop having sex and it becomes more difficult to open up the vagina as we age.

If we are still having sex we need to ensure we continue to have regular smears though may need to go private as some nhs refuse to do them.

That’s odd about the smear tests because I’m 57 and they keep calling me for a smear test - even though I don’t have a cervix anymore!!🤦‍♀️

SwanOfThoseThings · 16/09/2025 08:03

MissyB1 · 16/09/2025 07:30

That’s odd about the smear tests because I’m 57 and they keep calling me for a smear test - even though I don’t have a cervix anymore!!🤦‍♀️

It took me about three years to get off the smear test mailing list after my total hysterectomy! And they were quite 'off' about removing me, kept saying 'You're voluntarily opting out' as if they thought I was being reckless. I should have let them go ahead and waste their time trying to smear my vaginal cuff ...

FirstCuppa · 16/09/2025 08:37

Worldgonecrazy · 16/09/2025 07:00

Hi OP

on the pessaries and cream thanks to this thread.

A doctor also let me know that the reason they stop regular smears for women over 55 is because we stop having sex and it becomes more difficult to open up the vagina as we age.

If we are still having sex we need to ensure we continue to have regular smears though may need to go private as some nhs refuse to do them.

I haven't had sex for many years but was told they do smears for cancer cells, not just HPV. I have to be referred as it's hard to get to my cervix so it's a huge pain, but less pain physically than when I used to have the nurse trying to do it!

Thank you for this thread. Every day is indeed a school day on MN!

My cycle is getting shorter - I had 6 months without one and thought I was in meno but I had anemia, so not quite yet, but it's gone from bang on 28 days to 24/25. I got my first and only hot flush after a string of migraines last month so I am reading this thread with interest.

JFDIYOLO · 16/09/2025 10:25

I think there must be whole cohorts of elderly ladies in nursing homes, in sheltered accommodation, in hospital, living independent lives, whatever - who are suffering.

Because you just did not talk about these things in their day.

(My mum was saying how horrified she is by all these ads for Tena Lady and sanpro using RED liquid and site-specific deodorants ... Because nobody wants to hear about all THAT.)

The more we share this kind of knowledge and recommendations, the more normalised it will be that we can voice how we feel - and demand care.

Again, I feel SO much better on these pessaries. I found a notebook from two years ago where I was writing down the weird symptoms I was noticing but it took me that long to decide to get help.

Swipe left for the next trending thread