The strange case of ... the vanishing labia minora

[2JFDIYOLO]

I'd seen several random things recently on Insta by women worried because they'd heard the labia minora can shrink and disappear after menopause.

I'd never heard of it. At 62 I'm through and out the other side and I've read a LOT of lists of peri and meno delights and recognised loads of them.

This has to be one of those windups, like women doing videos on shedding skin like lizards to freak men out ... Surely ...? I thought.

This is silly, I thought. I'll have a feel ...

Anyway. They used to be two different sizes, with the left having a rounder frilly edge.

Not any more ...

Both have definitely got smaller and the frilly bit has ... gone.

Anyone ...?

😳

I can’t stand the whole ‘let nature takes it course’ argument uttered by some women. Why the fuck would anyone ‘let nature take its course’ when you can, in fact, change natures course?

it’s only ever about menopausal symptoms or beauty things like botox and shaving ones Fanny. I wonder if they were to be diagnosed with something terrible they would simply say ‘ah doctor, don’t worry about any treatment, I’m just going to let nature take its course’. Mugs.

2022 😆😆

Thank goddess for estriol cream, is all I can say.

Gina pessaries bought from Superdrug online are the same as Vagifem from the GP - both topical oestrogen in pessary form for insertion.

Topicsl oestrogen is also available in a cream (used to be called Ovestin til the patent expired and now it’s just generic estriol).

You can have both but expect a bit of a battle with the GP.

If your symptoms are mostly external, you’ll do ok with the cream, rub it all over the vulva including labia and clitoris. You can push a bit inside with your finger if needed.

The pessaries are helpful for internal dryness, splits, and urinary frequency (insert about halfway up).

(Thanks Mumsnet for autocorrecting labia to Lagos there. Brings a whole new meaning to the GP asking ‘Where are you applying the cream?’ ‘Oh, Chichester.’)

@BadgersSuitcase Here goes....the over the counter versions (called Gina and Ovesse) are the same as prescribed Vagifem and 0.1% estriol (used to be called Ovestin but now generic name Estriol cream.)

Because you can now buy Gina and Ovesse OTC they have had to be licensed (and it's OTT in my opinion!) as being sold to women over 50 or post menopausal.

I have no idea why this has been decided when they can be prescribed to women of any age , by a doctor.

No harm will come to women under 50, the dose is minute. Us it for a year and it's the same amount of estrogen as 1 day of systemic HRT.

They are also sometimes used by much young women who become 'dry' when breast feeding (low estrogen.)

I agree @namechangeGOT . Every single disease is 'natural' so the logic would also apply to that. No vaccines, no paracetamol, no treatment for killer-diseases.

Indeed. I certainly felt the effects of topical hrt systemically: bloating, depression, PMT basically.

Omg I've got bellyache from laughing! At least it has cheered me up. I've just come off of HRT after 3 years. Sick of trying different combinations and bleeding on and off constantly. We still can't make love because it feels like tglhe entrance to my flue is too narrow now. Bit fed up as I still like sex.

Movinghouseatlast I can sympathise. I had a complete breakdown at 54, and ended up taking early retirement from a job that I loved. I had no idea that it was the menopause, and it makes me so angry now.

@JinglingSpringbells i had horrendous pain during sex when BF. Was referred to gynae, not one person suggested it was hormonal driven and all I was given was that topical anaesthetic to put on my fanny before sex. Obviously I never use it. Why the hell bother having sex if you’re numb?

Much sympathy all round. I'm sorry you're all dealing with this but also glad I'm not the only one. It's not something I readily discuss IRL!

Steroid cream has done wonders for my poor minge. Prescribed by a very kind and sensible male GP. I also use Vagirux pessaries and HRT patches. I'm 47.

Thank you for this thread. I have just started using Dermovate steroid ointment. Canisten doesn't seem to clear it. The itching always comes back. GP thinks it might be LS. I have been using Vagifem for a year I think.

@CosiFannyTutte the steroid will make it worse if it’s not LS. That’s what happened to me. Have you got a referral?

Gosh, no. I haven't got a referral.

Thanks for the heads up.

I’m 70 - you have to wipe more carefully after peeing as the wee spreads a bit more.

If I went on holiday, my bits would require their own suitcase. Moisturising pessaries, vulva moisturiser, eostragel for my outer bits and bobs.

After being dead from the waist down for years, I'm beginning to feel long lost sensations so the extra baggage is worth it!

It's an important subject and I talk about it freely,

People, and I include doctors here, don't quite seem to grasp that once your hormones have depleted, they are never coming back so HRT really is the answer.

i haven’t really got my head around all this but it sounds as though there might be a solution for my mum in all this. She is 79, had mesh repair for a bladder prolapse about 5 years ago which is now failing (but not causing pain thankfully) and she is now suffering with incontinence.
Would the ring pessary (is that the right terminology) help with both problems? If so, can they be fitted by a GP or maybe a physio? I don’t think she’d cope with doing it herself.

That’s another change for me, I used to wee in a nice straight line, now it’s like an angry shower head.

@CosiFannyTutte 2x doctors misdiagnosed me with LS. Gynae took one look and said it wasn’t. You need a referral.

@SandrenaIsMyBloodType The ring that is for vaginal atrophy is called Estring. It slowly releases estrogen over 3 months then is replaced. (surprised your mum had mesh just 5 years ago as I thought that had been stopped.)

Estring is usually just inserted at home - it doesn't need anyone medical to do it.

What I understand is that pessaries for prolapse have to be 'measured' and fitted by a dr or physio to get the right size and type.
Estring is a one-size fits all and may not give enough support.

Using estrogen for vaginal atrophy is different from using it for a bladder prolapse. Vaginal estrogen can give some strength back to the tissues, but won't cure incontinence if the bladder has prolapsed (enough to have needed surgery.)

I think your Mum needs to see another uro-gynae and discuss options. One option now is using gel to bulk up the bladder and bladder outlet (this is an option to mesh) and less risky. She could also see a women's physio who specialises in incontinence.

@CosiFannyTutte Using a strong steroid if it's not the right treatment can be very bad! Over use of steroids thin the skin so if it's VA and thin anyway.....

Get a diagnosis.

That's awful, very similar to my sister who also loved her job.

I had bad symptoms too. I was fired from my job after 25 years blameless service. As I was a contractor there was nothing legally I could do.

I’m trying to find the post about using hormonal pessaries and cream for recurrent uti in elderly women. I know it’s off thread topic but would be very useful for a lady I know who is suffering recurrent issues that are cleared up by antibiotics then come back

@highlandponymummy I wonder if you could share any information on your situation. I am in similar situation re on and off bleeding. Currently engaging with GP and another scan arranged. GP thinks it's probably not serious and we will adjust hrt (they suggest coil but I not keen,). Your example suggests there might be sod all I can do if I don't do the coil. Did you consider coil? I do HRT for family history of osteoporosis and Parkinson's so keen to keep it up. And this thread also makes me think I should try and continue.

Hi, I had a scan last year because of the bleeding and a biopsy, but everything was fine. At first they doubled my progesterone tablet dose and then I bled constantly. They've now prescribed me another form of progesterone but I haven't started it. I stopped the patches, tablets etc 2 weeks ago now. I'm just using the Estriol cream. So far I feel absolutely fine, in fact if anything I feel less bloated. I won't consider the coil, as to be honest I'm fed up of my body being messed around with now. I really feel for you as it's so difficult to know what to do for the best. I haven't ruled our going back on it in the future if I have to.

Thanks @highlandponymummy. They doubled my dose too after last scan (polyp removed). I suspect it's very hard to get balance right for some of us. I didn't know there was a different type of progesterone so that's interesting.