Utrogestan differences?

[LemonBossy]

Has anyone noticed a difference between taking the usual Utrogestan made by Besins in France, and the slightly different in appearance (box) ones made for Besins in Spain.

I take Utrogestan and Estrogel everyday and no longer have a bleed, or any mood fluctuations, PMT etc. about 2 years since my last period.

I've just finished a run of two boxes of the newer type of Utrogestan and went to collect my new prescription and had a lightbulb moment.

I've been feeling really shitty for the last few months - that spiky, red hot bad mood that I associate with PMT - and when it's not that, I'm low and miserable, paranoid as hell and just feeling bad.

I know there is some thought about the Estrogel in a similar way and I've experienced that too - is the same happening with Utrogestan? Or am I going mad? Will anyone believe me if I ask about it? 😂🤦🏻‍♀️

It's so bad I'm considering just stopping it for a few days to give myself a break from it. I know that's not the best idea unless I stop the Estrogel too.

They are absolutely the same, just a different packaging! 😀

This is the newer package - I know this has been done to increase the supply of course, that's fine.
Plus inside leaflet

@100PercentFaithful Isn't that what they said about the estrogel though 😂

So you haven't experienced any difference between the two? Ok that's reassuring.

Obviously I know that many other things can cause these mood changes and I've been trying to get to the bottom of it.

That is a common effect of progesterone.
It sends me crazy with depression and anger.

How long have you been on it

I don't think the Spanish version is made for Besins. It's a different lab.
Utrogestan is a brand name. Micronised progesterone (generic) is the drug.

It's like ibuprofen (generic name) and Nurofen (brand name.)

If the ingredients are the same, the product will be the same.

Personally I never noticed any difference with Oestrogel. The only question mark over it is the version of Oestrodose which was mainly for the French market.

Maybe you need to increase your estrogen dose if mood swings etc are coming back?

That will only tell you that you're possibly not getting on well with micronised progesterone any more- not one particular brand.

You'd need to do a blind trial on yourself, taking both, but not knowing which!

@Branleuse I've been taking Utrogestan quite a while, haven't had problems with it before now. As in at least 6 or 7 years.

This is how I felt when I tried other types, in the dark days before Utrogestan!

@JinglingSpringbells
But both types are called Utrogestan and Besins owns Utrogestan. From what I understand they have a new location manufacturing for them in Spain, which has meant the supply has increased.

@JinglingSpringbells
But if it's just not agreeing with me for whatever reason, maybe I do need to try an alternative.

I don't know about that. I had only read they were opening a new site in France.
The label on the box you posted doesn't say Besins, it says Cyndea pharma company.

Just bumping this in case anyone has noticed a difference in how they've been feeling on Utrogestan, especially if you've been using the one with newer packaging like in my photo earlier?

Isn't the difference more likely to be that your progesterone levels have dropped and the dose you are getting isn't making the same difference as it did? Same with oestrogen?

@CheeseDreamz yes I suppose it could be that - I'll ponder on that one, thanks

I've noticed a massive difference between the new and old branding. Old one really worked well, new one made me feel utterly awful, like it wasn't working at all. Anxiety through the roof.

I've actually asked to swtch to a generic brand, when usually it's the other way around!

@Wonderbug81
Ah I was starting to think I was going mad! Thank god I'm not the only one 😂
So what did they switch you to and have you noticed a difference?

Same. When I went to the pharamacist they kept insisting it was the same and it certainly looked the same so I assumed it was all in my head.

I switched to Gepretix which I've sometimes been given before. Much better. I do seem to get some side effects with all progesterone taken orally but this one and the original brand Utrogestan seem to much better.

All very strange unless there's perhaps one faulty batch out there?

@Wonderbug81
That's good to know! I might request that one too, to give it a try.

Yeah I ended up speaking to a GP today - I really just wanted to talk to the clinical pharmacist - and she just wasn't having any of it.

Something is clearly different though 🤷🏻‍♀️

I can't take progesterone for this reason.

It's hard to know how there can be any difference when the ingredients are the same.

They shouldn't 'not work' better/ worse or be faulty because this will affect the womb lining. Drugs are very carefully controlled and go through many steps of checking their quality before they are released.

It's more likely that it's something going on with your own hormones- either you need a bit more estrogen now, or you are reacting to progesterone.

Micronised progesterone is quite unstable in some ways which is why there are instructions about not taking orally with food- that would double its strength. So if you're taking it closer to eating, you'd get a different response. Your own digestive system can be the reason for noticing differences.

I don't know if this is possible- if you share a home with anyone? If you do, you could try an experiment on yourself! You could get someone to put your tablets in a container (take them out of the foil wrapping) so you don't know which is which.

Only the other person would know.

Use them for a cycle and then 'reveal' which ones they were.

@JinglingSpringbells I like the sound of the blind test - I just need to get hold of some of the 'old' kind, and work out how long it takes to notice a difference ie a week, 2 days,whatever it is. Then I could give that a try!

When I spoke to the GP she did admit that some women are very sensitive to a change like this - I have no idea why it would be different but it's made in a different factory - different country altogether - maybe it's stored differently, as turned out to be the case with the Estrogel.

I do think that it's important to believe people when they notice something happening to their own body though. Seven years or whatever not having a problem with Utrogestan - then suddenly the product is different and I feel completely differently. I'm a grown up woman who is aware of changes in mood and feeling of wellbeing.

People's personal experiences of HRT vary hugely - so I don't think it's fair to insist that there is only one logical way that things can happen.

I'm on a decent dose of Estrogel so don't think it needs to increase but this will be the next thing I look at after I establish what's happening with Utrogestan.

I have no idea why it would be different but it's made in a different factory - different country altogether - maybe it's stored differently, as turned out to be the case with the Estrogel.

I have a close friend who works at the highest level in pharma, international company, overseeing quality of drugs. Everything is quality checked from the minute it comes into the manufacturer as a raw material, to the final release once it's ready to leave the site. There is a team of people doing just that. And there would be serious consequences if anything 'went wrong'.

There was never any 'proof' that Oestrogel was different and no idea there was any evidence it was stored differently.

Micronised progesterone is known to be unstable in the digestive system. You could be getting a different response if your stomach still has some food in it, compared to none at all. I've used it for around 11 years and I can see a difference almost every month. Sometimes I get a headache, other times I feel moody, other times, it doesn't affect me at all. I think it's just how the drug is.

But try a blind test if you can!

I get the comments about everything being standardised and highly controlled but it's also possible that one specific batch has had some kind of issue during transportation or whatever.

I'm certainly not looking out for differences, in fact I didn't even realise the branding had changed until I started to feel awful and then looked at what I'd been taking.

Of course, it could be coincidence too, so hard to know. 🤷‍♀️

Hope the generic option works for you in the meantime OP.

There was never any 'proof' that Oestrogel was different and no idea there was any evidence it was stored differently.

There were many reports from women that the Oestrogel was different based on their own actual experience from changing between bottle shapes. I was one of these women and raised a yellow card, as did quite a few others just even on MN. For me the change happened within a few days. And as soon as I reverted to the original conical bottle shape, my symptoms resolved. Plenty of women reported exactly the same experience. Besins could make all the claims they liked about testing not revealing any differences but there was enough evidence to support there being a problem that they never seemingly managed to identify. It makes me angry when women reporting are dismissed like this.