BBC1, 8PM Tomorrow (Monday 30/9). Panorama - The Menopause Industry.

[SebastianFlytesTrousers]

Documentary presented by Kirsty Wark investigating the multi million pound global menopause industry.

Should be interesting.

couple of years back LN posted a "study suggests HRT prevents dementia" type social media post, having rubbished a very similar study which suggested the opposite only a couple of months earlier

Yes, LN is notorious for cherry picking studies that support her claims and totally ignoring studies that show either no benefit or even a slight increase in dementia risk with hrt use. High quality studies on the issue have been very mixed to date. (But you wouldn't know that if LN and her ilk were your main source of information).

It's a huge disservice to women to overstate the risks of modern hrt, but it's no better to make overblown claims of unproven benefits. Informed consent requires accurate, unbiased information.

That's interesting, I would like to look at the study?

I’m a Newson Clinic patient. Got HRT no problems from NHS GP but wanted testosterone.

I was really optimistic but realistic it would take time to work. I thought I saw some improvements in levels of energy and libido but this was short lived.

I had a full blood screen and review appointment last week. They suggested patch was increased from 50 to 75 and the testogel taken over 5 days rather than 8.

I requested this via my GP (ordered testosterone via Newson clinic) and here’s the message I got yesterday. Yikes.

I’m going to see what the increased dosages look like but this week has certainly been an eye opener!

@Wellbeige I was prescribed testosterone by an NHS GP yesterday after an appointment with Newson Clinic on Friday.

Was that study you are referencing an observational study where they were not using body identical oestrogen nor progesterone? Or are there others?

I agree - my point was while I don't think they've been proven to be effective, and so should not be advertised as such, they've not been proven to be ineffective either.

I take supplements - but not expensive ones. They can't hurt as long as you don't take too many/too much of things.

As well as NICE guidelines, are there regional guidelines as well? It does make me wonder when one GP says they "can't" do something on the NHS but others can.

Or is it a case of "won't"?

WRT to testosterone I was told in April I could be referred to NHS gynaecologist who would consider it. Long wait list and vague criteria meant it felt easier just to go private.

I think I hoped that the GP might now consider prescribing as blood tests and assessments have all been done.

I've just watched this having had an appointment with NH yesterday.

My GP and Cons Gynae are both excellent, currently on 2 x pumps of oestrogel and 200mg of Utrogestan
I wanted testosterone as my libido is non existent.

They prescribed this for me, but having watched the programme I emailed my Gynae who said he can and will prescribe testosterone and not to buy from NH

Now I don't know what I'm doing 🤷🏼‍♀️

Oh get it via the gynaecologist if you can!

Lisa Mosconi has also stated very openly that healthy diet and lifestyle reduces dementia risk by a huge amount (I think 40-50%) which is far more than any medical intervention

alllll of this. And mosconi isn't against hrt but is interested in what does actually work.

I read her book before hrt. Hrt didn't help brain fog. Even testosterone. Following her advice really has. Whilst off hrt and on tamoxifen.

Interestingly I saw a clip on her instagram a few days ago that seemed to be parts of a documentary. One clip showed her describing a clinical trial for a SERM for Alzheimer's, which is what tamoxifen and other drugs are, that you can take after a hormonal breast cancer diagnosis.

I don't know more about that but both tamoxifen and AIs (aromatase inhibitors which block the body from turning testosterone into oestrogen for cancer prevention) are both shown to reduce risks of dementia and Alzheimer's.

They can cause fatigue whilst taking but appears to also be protective in the brain.

Just to add - Lisa says what Zoe and Tim spector are saying and what Dr Stacy Sims says, lots of the Michael Mosely 'just one things,' and the Twin tv drs (their radio stuff is better) - diet and exercise have massive positive impacts on the brain.

And sleep. Stacy prioritises sleep. And Lisa talks about certain types of yoga that are evidenced to help with meno symptoms mainly as they dial down stress and promote sleep.

Agree with everyone saying they're disappointed in this programme. If there was a need for an inquiry (a witch hunt) it should be targeted at those who thought it was ok to completely ignore this area of medical research/treatment for so long. That's the reason private clinics filled the gap and why the whole area feels like it is just catching up. The pendulum may have swung too far on the prescribing side of things but there's a root cause here,

I just think this a misogynistic attempt to stop the commencement of women centered medicine and to keep female specialists in their place. If you have a chronic condition and are female, the misogyny you encounter in the NHS is eye popping. You catch up fast. I read that until recently anaesthetic wasn't even offered for insertion of IUDs and certain gynae procedures involving endometriosis among other things.

It reminds me of the way in which medicine was taken away from women in the past. Local herbal specialists were decried as witches and I read that as a result much information was lost to us, even down to today. I truly hope we get more female centered medical care in the future, from adolescents onwards including birth and pre and postnatal care. Personally I'd love female only administered care. But I appreciate that probably isn't possible.

I agree - I said similar above. I am sure there are errors and overprescribing, but also think there is built in sexism (and ageism) when it comes to care for menopause.

Had an ultrasound on Tuesday and got the results today. Polyp on my cervix and womb lining slightly thicker than it should be. So im looking at a hospital appointment and possible painful hysterocopy. All because i took HRT for three months and came off it two weeks ago due to a heavy bleed. Keep getting asked when my last period was and i KEEP saying i had three very light bleeds which lasted less than a day in 2022 and ive been on the mini pill for nearly three years which stops periods so i may not even be menopausal or post menopausal yet. I wish id never touched the fucking stuff

@JenniferBooth , I’m so sorry to hear that , I’ve avoided hrt because I keep
hearing about women who have sudden bleeds on it .

Ah the irony - how sleep is so important. Yet so many women’s sleep goes to shit in perimenopause (and many say HRT helps this).

For those that suffer - a bit of yoga just isn’t enough.

We're all heading massively off topic!

I tried everything pre HRT (aged 54) as I have a DCIS history so I spent from aged 46 to 54 trying to cope.

Supplements yoga, exercise etc.

A low carb/ high protein made a huge difference even to my gynae pain but ultimately the lack of sleep, overwhelm, joint pain etc. pushed me to try HRT privately (Newson) and it changed my life overnight.

I was at the point of having to give up work and I had very poor quality of life.

It's a lovely idea that everyone can cope based on diet etc. I wish it had been true for me.

There's a long interview with LN in today's Mail, online.

Oh I'm sorry to hear this! But I had the same in my late thirties. Polyp on my Cervix and a thicker womb lining. This was discovered after I had several periods that didn't stop for months, continual bleeding everyday for up to 3 months at a time. Had a scan. Asked why it was happening no one could tell me. In fact the polyp is still there and the lining of my womb is still thicker, though the 'termly' periods have stopped thank god. In terms of doctors no one seemed or appears to be overly concerned about it and I've not had further issues.

Notably, I have never been on the pill in my life, or had ever taken HRT at the time so these things can just happen. It's apparently very common although a greater risk in PM or post menopause if taking HRT but this would usually be Oestrogen only HRT which is dangerous. The mini pill is progestogen only and in theory thins out the womb lining so should be preventative for the development of polyps. I would say yes, you're right, it was a mistake not to have an extended period off the pill before taking HRT because if you are still having regular periods you would need either a smaller or no dose of oestrogen alongside progesterone (I'm assuming you were not taking Oestrogen only which should not really ever be taken ideally) although I think 3 months is a short time for anyone to say with certainty it was the HRT since it happens to women fairly commonly without it.

You may also still have developed the polyp anyway due to fluctuations associated with the peri phase and even immediately coming off the pill, as you may have experienced a sort of temporary rebound increase in estrogen that may have tapered out and settled with time but have caused a sudden increase in the womb lining.

I've just read it.

I am not a fan of the tone of the "poor me, my dad died, i'm in tears all the time" sort of article. But what she says in essence is right. She has transformed the way we all talk about HRT, her and people like Davina McCall and Mariella Frostrup have revolutionised thinking and attitudes to menopause in general and raised awareness among everyone - not just women in their 40s and 50s. That is hugely positive.

She also points out the utterly shit service many of us have experienced from the NHS and that is the sole reason why women are seeking private help. There are clearly lots of people in the NHS who are feeling very threatened and undermined by people like Newson who is showing up their failings. I think the documentary tried to paint her as this uncaring maverick who is pushing her own agenda but I feel that is unfair.

I'm not a Newson client but only because I had the personal resilience for 4 appointments with 4 GPs over 18 months before I managed to get HRT.

I know @Delatron. As I've been suffering from bouts of insomnia .

But can't take hrt so have to seek the other methods.

Conversation needs to be wider

Thankyou for that post Its extremely informative and very helpful to me.
I cant stop the mini pill as i need it for contraception, Im childfree by choice (NHS refused me sterilisation) and being child free by choice makes me too nervous to use condoms alone. Having been on mini pill for three years it tends to stop periods so even though im 51 i could still be in peri. the mini pill has stopped my periods. If they had listened and believed me about wanting to be child free all those years ago it wouldnt be so complicated now and i would have just been on the HRT and not both.

Not to mention that Louise Newson had a hysterectomy, so she doesn't need higher doses of progestogens to protect the womb, and let's not forget that the risk of breast cancer increases with higher doses of combined hormone therapy (estradiol + progestogen), and doesn't seem to increase with estradiol only therapy. That's the problem when people is giving advice on treatments, or a doctor is experimenting on patients, every person is different.