I cannot stay asleep and it's killing me

[ExhaustedEm]

I've now been on HRT since December and testosterone added since February and my sleep, if anything, has got worse.

I fall asleep fine but cannot stay asleep. I sleep exactly 5 hours - you could set a clock by it - and then I'm awake.

I'm fucking up at work, I'm falling asleep at my desk, I fall asleep on the train. I cannot stay awake I am so tired. I'm worried I'm going to lose my job.

I've tried magnesium, CBD, L theanine, Nytol and god knows what else. I can't take prescription stuff for too long and when I stop, the sleep goes back the way it was.

If anyone has a similar sleep pattern, have they found a way to fix it? I am absolutely desperate now

I’m 48 and I’ve been having acupuncture for sleep & mental clarity for a year and it’s really helped.

https://www.bmj.com/company/new

Urgh me too. Very different to usual insomnia I’ve had in the past so not being able to get to sleep in the first place . With this I get to sleep then wake about 1am if a good night 1am and around 3am on a bad night. Like having a flipping new born again. I usually get back to sleep but don’t feel as rested in the day.

Have you considered increasing your estrogen?

That's the first thing if HRT isn't working well. If you've only been on it for around 5 months, it needs a review and that might mean a higher dose.

What type and dose are you on?

You've not mentioned exercise. Are you getting any, every day? I don't mean in the gym but walking outside. I find I notice the difference with my sleep if I don't do this.

Try 5HTP. It doesn't help me drop off (i use Nytol herbal for that) but it does seem to help me stay asleep / make my sleep heavier. I'd also suggest a fitbit if you don't have one - i use a small one from argos. Becuase i have information about my sleep the next day, it makes me a bit calmer about it all somehow. Perhaps just me but it's helped my sleep anxiety in a way.
Solidarity.

As cold a bedroom as you can manage, open windows and use a fan

Regular bedtimes, set am alarm

Magnesium Glycinate with your daily Progesterone as you’re getting into bed

Headphones and audiobook or podcast when you wake at 4am

Ironically I’ve the Huberman series featuring Matt Walker a sleep expert the best for dropping off again, he’s got such a calm soothing voice.

sympathies Op, it must be miserable

Almost exactly the same pattern f sleep. I GoTo bed at 10 to at least try and get some hours in.I’ve also started going to gym at 6am as fuck it I’m up, so I’ve lost some weight.

it’s absolutely debilitating. Luckily I have an understanding boss and talked to them, we’ve discussed my dropping a day a week for a bit to see if that helps, but at the moment I’m wfh a day a week which helps as it’s ok if I nap in some down time. I can catch up later. It’s that kind of work.

I could wfhmore often

if there’s likely to be any sympathy at work I’d explain. And think about dropping a day a week.

I'm on 4 pumps of oestrogel and 2 utrogestan (I still have periods for my sins). I get out and about every day. I'm starting to get into a vicious circle where I am too tired to exercise now.

What dose of HRT are you on? If you’ve only been on it since December I bet there is scope to increase it.

In addition I have a prescription for Zopiclone for when it is really bad. I save it for when I have big things on at with the next day. It helps hugely.

In between, I sometimes take the over the counter antihistamine sleeping tablets.

I don’t take something every night, but they’ve been helpful.

Honestly, do look to increase your HRT, that should be the first step.

That's a lot of estrogen.

Why?

Out of interest why did you start on that much or have you been advised to increase it over 5 months?

I'd be tempted to cut back and see if that helps.

i take Boots Sleepeze. I tried everything natural you could try & became discouraged and desperate. I finally get unbroken sleep for at least six hours a night and it’s made a huge difference to my well-being.

good luck, OP. It’s really, really tough having these sleep issues.

I found I was waking up feeling anxious and that was then keeping me up. When that happens I take a low dose (10) propranolol and it relaxes me back to sleep.

I've also found sugar or alcohol after 7pm really affects my sleep.

Good luck with it all.

@LateMumma could I ask what magnesium spray you use, please?

I'm the same OP. There is some difference if I manage to not have caffeine for a day - but that's a balance in itself!

@Crankyfeminist it's this one BetterYou Magnesium Oil Body... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002VPDX4W?ref=ppxpoppmobappshare
It does seem to help, but there's some great suggestions on this thread that I'll be trying too

I’m exactly the same! Ironic given my username! I’m not even sure if it’s menopause related as I’m only 44, could be peri I suppose. I used to sleep amazingly when I was on Sertraline (antidepressant). Not long ago I had some bad news about my long term health condition & I put my Sertraline dose up & I also had a stressful emergency hospital admission. I also have chronic pain which doesn’t help. But basically I fall asleep & wake up after 2 to 3 hours then I’m awake for about 3 hours before falling asleep for one or two more. I’m exhausted! Will try some of the suggestions here. Solidarity OP!

@Mumblechum0, tempted to try the Oto CBD oil. Can I ask how long the bottle lasts?

Same here, for me I’ve found BBC Sounds works (The Archers or Joanna Lumley - Conversations from a long marriage). Just hearing the words in the background is enough to stop my brain from running it’s own dialogue.

Are you really doing everything?

morning light. Extremely important. 20 minutes minimum every morning, no sunglasses or UV glass filters.

no screens for 1-2 hours before bed

good environment obviously

Don’t eat 2-3 hours before bed

good diet

exercise earlier on in the day

Magnesium GLYCINATE - good quality - 2 hours before bed (can take months to raise your levels so don’t give up)

@ExhaustedEm its 2 drops under the tongue at bedtime. A bottle lasts me about 6 or 7 weeks

I really feel for you. I have similar, I'm waking every 2-3 hours, sometimes every hour to go to the toilet. Every time it's a full on wee. I don't know why. I can get a full night's sleep but it's broken, and I feel like I'm never getting into REM sleep. Like you I'm nodding off all the time.

It vaguely improved when I did a fasting diet, but not enough to assuage the misery of the diet!

I think I had had about a month of the worst sleep in my life - literally no sleep. I was way past the sea sick rocking stage of exhaustion and completely unable to function, was off work, crying, totally losing the plot. A friend suggested I try the magnesium that I linked in my previous reply, it was a Thursday evening. By the weekend I couldn’t wake up and have literally slept for Britain ever since - I think I’m making up for my YEARS/DECADES(all my adult life) of chronic insomnia.

Hope you manage to sleep

Do you snore? Might be worth getting checked for sleep apnoea. I'm wondering about this atm and it seems to increase around the time of the menopause. My O2 on Fitbit is around 94-95% on average which I worry is a bit low. The GP did an Epworth sleep scale with me though and I only scored 4 so he thinks it seems Ok. I need to lose weight. Going to try swimming more and see if I can improve it myself to start with.

It's the lack of progesterone that causes this it's absolutely awful I do sympathise. The only thing that helped me was taking Utrogestan tablets (bio identical progesterone part of HRT) and within a day I was sleeping through again. Not sure what HRT you are on but if you are not on Utrogestan with estrogen gel it's worth asking to switch to this combo xx

@Dailyprocrastinator thanks for your reply. I'll give them a try!

How long did you try magnesium for? It took a good few weeks taking it for it to kick in but it did work for me in the end