Please help me sleep!

[dressedforcomfort]

Menopause is destroying my ability to sleep and I feel like a train wreck. Can fall asleep fairly easily but cannot stay asleep. Generally wake around 3am and am awake for a good couple of hours before drifting off again. It's not anxiety related. My body just won't get into a deep sleep anymore. Currently trying to work and have a banging headache and getting fuck all done.

Please tell me what has worked for you - currently I am using/have used:

HRT - been on it two years and worked like a charm until about 2 months ago when symptoms have started returning.
Magnesium cream rubbed into legs before bed - again used to help but no longer doing much
Melatonin gummies (no effect whatsoever)
Sleepeze tablets from Boots - again, used to work like a charm but no longer doing much
Exercise - go to the gym 3x a week and am out dog walking every day.
Menopace supplements
No caffeine after midday.

All suggestions gratefully received!!

Have you tried cbd drops? I've recently started using Trip (can buy in boots) and have noticed a positive impact on my mood and sleep. I also take a range of other vitamins including magnesium tablets and then a spray just before bed.

Haven't tried CPD drops but Googling now. Thanks you. Open to all suggestions at this point - including bashing my head repeatedly against a wall.

There's commonly a cortisol spike around 3am. I read somewhere that it can be linked to low blood sugar. If I'm feeling particularly stressed I'll have a couple of oat cakes before bed and it seems to help (still wake but can usually get back to sleep after going to the loo).

Tart cherry capsule along with magnesium has really helped me.

what dose oestrogen are you on? I have times when my sleep is poor, exactly as you describe and then I have to alter my dose.

the problem is, I think, the fluctuating hormone levels during peri

I am the same if I eat anything sugary in the evening - it's a bummer, but it basically acts on my body like caffeine these days 😩

My sleep was getting bad again and I put the dose of my HRT up, now sleeping so well again!

Can you increase your HRT dose if the symptoms are returning?
In terms of sleep, like you I have a tendency of waking up around 3am and struggle to go back to sleep. I've read a lot of "how to sleep" articles and listened to even more podcasts and a few things sort of work for me:

1. Keep sleep / wake times the same every day. If you can't because you are out, then still get up at the same time. I go to bed at 10pm every day with only a few exceptions per month and I always wake up at 6am. Try and get some sunlight as soon as possible after waking up.
2. Either stop screen-time an hour or more before bedtime or use blue light blocking glasses / screens to reduce the impact.
3. Don't eat or drink 2 hours before bed.
4. If you do wake up in the night, don't stress about it, it's normal. Find something that works for you whether it's getting up and pottering about, read a book, listen to a podcast. After 10-15 minutes try again.
5. An alternative to 4 is to use techniques to still your brain racing. Breathing exercises might work or word games. I tend to go through the alphabet and think of as many fruits / veg / names etc. as I can for each letter. Often I don't complete the alphabet before I get to sleep.

Other things - don't exercise too close to bedtime as it energises you, alcohol reduces the quality of your sleep, if you have a noisy / light sleep environment consider ear plugs and/ or eye mask. Try to arrange your life to reduce stress (easier said than done!) and get any stressful tasks completed in the morning so that there's distance between them and your sleep time.

If all else fails and I have a period of poor sleep I take a Sominex or similar as it makes me just drowsy enough (I take 0.25 of a tablet) to go back to sleep just to get out of the "habit" of waking up and stressing in the night.

Hope you find what works for you - sleep deprivation is awful!

I am going to talk about HRT dosage with doctor tomorrow and see if they think it's appropriate to put it up. I'm on estradiol sachets (brand name is Sandrena) I take 1.5mg gel a day. No idea if this is considered a high or low dose. Ideally, I'd like to increase it if safe to do so.

Making notes about the other stuff. The cortisol thing is interesting. Will try a couple of oatcakes before bed and see if that helps.

Tart Cherry capsule is a new one. Do magnesium cream already but wondering if I'd be better with a magnesium supplement.

I rarely drink so alcohol not really a factor.

Thank you - lots of good tips here!

Be aware that cherry supplements can have bad side effects in some people. I had a banging headache as well as an inability to wake up properly (felt drugged). On the plus side it helped with my lupus pain but that might be because I couldn't feel body pain because of the intensity of headache pain. Hopefully you will be fine on it.

More serious side effects include intense stomach pain, dizziness and constant sleepiness, and memory loss.

My sleep improved dramatically when I stopped reading in bed and started watching tv on my laptop. I know it is not what the standard advice says, although some argue that reading engages your brain more. Anyway, it works for me.

To help more I use the Calm app (I pay a sub but there are free alternatives), which taught me how to relax for sleep. And occasionally if I need a reset I take a half-dose nytol (the antihistamine sort).

Mostly though, I've never slept better (I'm 57), so there is hope.

All of this!

I have a friend that’s a sleep consultant and she recommends all of the above sleep hygiene methods.

I have taken antihistamine sleep aids-a quarter dose is all that’s needed for me. Very effective. However, I’ve stopped as these drugs can have adverse side effects plus you get used to them-I wouldn't worry about occasional use but a regular habit isn’t recommended.

This magnesium really helped me personally. Melatonin does nothing too, only helps me fall asleep, i still wake around 3 am but mostly fall asleep again after taking this magnesium,

@MrsRachelDanvers I think is what worries me. I'm a bit over dependent on Sleepeze at the moment tbh

I’ve been prescribed amitryptyline for this exact problem as I don’t want HRT. Has sorted the problem in a matter of days.

Me too ,but i was even worse on it ,felt very tired and sort of drunk a day and couldn't cope with the hunger...

@EndofDaze I'm really glad you are sorted. Will ask my doctor about it.

@Madickenxx @SabrinaThwaite I think my sleep hygiene is probably pretty decent. I have a comfy bed, a quiet room, I don't have a TV in the bedroom. I stick to a fairly consistent routine. No caffeine after midday and I rarely drink alcohol. I love going to bed to be honest, just can't stay asleep....

@dressedforcomfort I miss my younger days when I just went to bed, fell asleep and woke up in the morning! Have you tried the Valerian herbal Nytol? 2 teaspoons, non addictive and I’ve had ok night's sleep with it. But the tart cherry and magnesium seem to be effective-I wake up but am sleepy and nod off again. Feel rested in the morning. I only tried the cherry a couple of weeks ago when I came across an article about tart cherry juice and insomnia.

So I bought magnesium supplements yesterday (as opposed to the magnesium cream I was using, which was doing bog all.) And slept SO much deeper last night. Only woke once. And don't have a headache this morning for first time in 3 weeks. I feel human today. Clearly tablets are the way to go! Thank you everyone!

Lots of good advice here and glad to hear you got some sleep. Magnesium glycinate is the best for sleep and has really helped me.

Magnesium supplements - get the highest quality you can, and you might find a complex with glycinate, taurate and l-threonate to be effective.

L-theanine is another good supplement for sleep.

Stop drinking alcohol.

Reduce caffeine to nothing or to one small dose per day, nothing after 10am.

Those are the things that work best for me. I also find junk food and stress really affect my sleep.

Try magnesium cream. I have tried a few. Feather & Down I think (to perfumed for me), and one from Holland & Barret which was a bit sticky, but helped. Bought one Christmas time from Arcade Skincare, very nice and light and helped with statin cramps as well.