Please read if you are struggling emotionally as well as physically

[Ihateexcel23]

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-bulletin/article/severe-mental-illness-and-the-perimenopause/8D072AACBCD3C7888C173B36635C08C3?fbclid=IwAR2nslh8H3-tb6ymJduXd_AwW_hnHPIFGASb0zcV9OiWVxGczcqcwEvjMgo

So after women working all this out for themselves, it's finally being taken seriously? Female suicide peaks at 51, I thought doctors might have worked out the connection for themselves. The link with worsening episodes of psychosis has also been known for a long time. Fascinating and very necessary research.

I wonder if this is why antidepressants don’t perform well in trials. They’ve been amazing for me when I had depression, just depression. But when the peri took it up a notch I might as well have been taking sugar pills.

Suidicde ideation I was used to. Sudden compulsions to do it when I was alone, in a place with a thing that it could achieved by…. completely new and very freaky. Felt like one of those Zombified ants.

It didn’t go away until I started slapping Sandrena on me.

Then the anti depressants went back to being completely efficient and useful. Until my thyroid decided to retire. But that just makes me a bit flat, nothing as scary and “who the fuck has nicked the driver’s seat in my head, cos I’m very sure it’s not me anymore”. as the peri-menopause managed to achieve.

If depression is a symptom of something else on the blink, but ADs are given as the sole treatment, it might explain why they “don’t work”.

Agree that this is something which those of us who have been through this know already. If it's hormones causing your anxiety, depression and suicidal thoughts, then you need HRT not anti-depressants. Been there, got the prescription (twice) ans things only got better when I started HRT.

The ignorance of GPs about menopause is so common - there is the odd one or who out there who are brilliant, others like a GP in my practice who accepts she isn't that well informed and is happy to give me what I ask for without too much of a battle. When you have GPs telling women that if they're not having hot flushes it can't be menopause and refusing to prescribe, this sort of report is going to make zero different. Because middle-aged women's voices are not heard.

Your 14- year old suddenly breaks out in spots - the world and their granny nod and say 'ah, it's his hormones.' They don't blame diet, or lifestyle, or that kind of thing. A woman in her forties is consumed with feelings of worthlessness and spells of volcanic, out-of-control rage, and it's because she's a Karen/socially invisible/not as attractive anymore/has pressing family responsibilities, and therefore needs CBT and yoga and unprocessed foods (I'm not saying those things aren't good, but maybe just in the sense of making bad things less bad). I see in the news today that CBT is to be offered for hot flushes and i think we are going backwards after a bit of progress. So many doctors still seem sceptical and afraid of HRT.

Omfg. Thankyou so much for bringing attention to this @Ihateexcel23
I have an appointment with a GP next month after scrabbling to find anyone where I live with up to date knowledge of HRT. She's young and has a reputation for being very proactive in this area.
I am on HRT but I believe it's the wrong dose, or maybe I need a different combination. My current GP readily admitted he didn't know.
I'm 50, have bipolar, and my suicidal ideation ramped up terrifyingly around 42. Was told I was "treatment resistant " at 44 as I was trialled on multiple meds without any improvement.
I had my first psychotic break at 45. Two months ater a medical hysterectomy (inc oopherectomy).
I've had estrogen patches since hysterectomy but they haven't controlled the insomnia or hot flashes despite raising the dose, and I've said to my psychiatrist several times "I wonder if there's some link here between my bipolar going nuts since my hysterectomy"
It was barely acknowledged. I've been rapid cycling for 5 years now. It's hell. There's no break between the phases of depression and mania. I'm anxious and irritable every single fucking day.
I'm emailing this article to her and my psychologist and will raise it at the GP appointment.
I've also been having EMDR the last two years as I had a breakdown when all my trauma around my son's death (and childhood sexual abuse) just seemed to explode afterid had it semi under control till then.
Thankyou again. I actually felt tearful reading this as it absolutely validates my growing suspicion that my worsening mental health, in peri and after surgical menopause, isn't a coincidence.

In theory CBT is to be recommended as an option for women who can't or don't want to take HRT, eg because of history of breast cancer. Which is fair enough.

@AlienatedChildGrown I absolutely relate to your vivid description of the change in your suicidal ideation. So glad you're coping now.

I just read on the bbc app that talking therapy is being used for menopausal symptoms. They can fuck right off with that. If a man wants viagra, apart from being able to buy it over the counter, does his dr get someone to phone him up for a nice chat???

You would hope that if a man wants Viagra but has unstable angina he would be offered something less pharmaceutically active, yes. And if his doctor did say "what the hell" and prescribe it anyway I wouldn't see that as a win for the patriarchy.

Don't get me wrong, you'd have to take my HRT from my cold dead arse cheek, but there are a lot of women who can't take it, and apparently CBT can help them.

Viagra is an odd one though. It can be sold otc with a little chat with a pharmacist, I believe, much like the emergency pill. Online purchase as well. But what is to stop a man withholding important facts from the vendor when nothing actually gets back to his GP? I do wonder that when middle aged men die a 'sudden death', whether this drug might be implicated in some cases. And yet there is no evidence that he has taken it presumably - no prescribing history.

This is so interesting Op, thank you for starting this thread.
Had a total breakdown 2 years ago. First time ever at the age of 48. Alright now but, my god, it was so bleak for a long time. Absolutely no control over those thoughts that kept flooding in.
This isn't discussed enough, how dark it can get.
Here's a hug for anyone going though it and anyone who's got through it and well, anyone finding menopause to be the shittest time of their life so far!
You're not alone xxxxx

@Weatherwax13 Thanks for sharing this, felt really tearful reading. You've been through such a lot. Honestly, I'm reading all the posts and wanting to give everyone a hug. This is a tough time of life.

Lots of love to you @Threewheeler1, it can be very bleak. I was never as ill as you but certainly had long periods of not wanting to be here any more and wondering whether I had dementia as I was so not myself. Out of the blue, no previous problems with mental health.

I am another one who intends using HRT for as long as I live.

Oooh so many messages, hello everyone and sad but happy that this chimed with some of you.

I wish I had seen this summary I linked to years ago and learnt from it. Id have hopefully listened to my symptoms and advocated for what I needed not accepted what a doctor who didnt understand suggested and also didnt argue for one size fits all treatments that you see on here sometimes.

So what have I learned
I needed antidepressants but older prozac not newer escitalopram etc. Lots of evidence to support prozac for hormone driven psychological issues such as pmdd and during peri

I needed longer cycle progesterone as monthly cycling added to the mental torture

I had to accept that cptsd due to what I now know were significant childhood issues is exacerbated by hormonal fluctuations

I had to learn that genetic neurodivergent traits combined with cptsd combined with a lifetime of monthly pmdd meant that it was unavoidable that peri would be hell.
But I now have a better understanding of who I am and what I need. Its not perfect and its not the end and I'm still here. Wishing you peace if you identify with any of this.

Oooh @YoullCatchYourDeathInTheFog I've just noticed your username and it's reminded me of the Bowie song (that's where it's from isn't it?) Haven't hear it for years, think I'll listen to it now!

Yes! I've been looking for a good Bowie name for ages so I was very excited to realise that this one hadn't been used and fitted in the letter count.

@Ihateexcel23 I am absolutely vicious mixed with severe depression when on utrogestan , even taken vaginally.
I had PMDD all my menstrual life. I'm also autistic with a history of CPTSD. There's been some links between autism and progesterone sensitivity I think. Please google if anyone is interested.
I absolutely want to stop taking this utrogestan as it's utter poison to my brain, but no one will give me a hysterectomy, so I'm stuck with it.
Utter utter shite. I can't stop hrt because without oestrogen replacement, I wouldn't be here at all.

In my opinion, women with medical histories like mine should absolutely be offered hysterectomy so they can be free from the perils of progesterone for good.

@Threewheeler1 thankyou so much. I'm very glad you're recovering. You've been through such a frightening time.