Non HRT alternatives?

[OutOfSyncWithReality]

I keep seeing Starpowa Meno Balance advertised. Has anyone tried it? Or anything else? For health reasons I can't go on HRT at the moment and looking for alternatives. My main issue is hot flushes but there are plenty of other symptoms not far behind.

I haven't tried that, but I did take Menopace along with Boots Soy and Isoflavones (sp?) tablets. I swear they reduced the hot flushes within a couple of weeks of starting them.

I took them together for years but eventually went on HRT. I still take Menopace though.

Some women take Sage tablets and say it helps with flushes too.

The Arella Pause Menopause Support liquid sachets work for my hot flushes and night sweats. Before stumbling across them, I felt like I would spontaneous combust most days.

Stopping alcohol stopped my night sweats.

To be honest, if you can't use HRT for medical reasons, I'd ask your GP to refer you to a menopause specialist, or if you can afford it, make an appt yourself.

It depends why you can't use HRT (the only reasons are recent breast cancer, heart attack, stroke or serious liver disease.)

There are many excellent consultants (usually consultant gynaecologists) who are able to suggest treatments for women unable to use HRT.

There is no research that has proved supplements work and I'd caution against buying things promoted online that are often no more than snake oil.

The best way is to look at herbs that are possibly going to help with your symptoms.

Things like black cohosh may help, or acupuncture, and even yoga and breathing exercises.

If your medical issue is cancer related, you can't use a lot of herbal products as they contain soy isoflavins and this is an estrogen promoter.

Also interested in this.

I have been advised not to take HRT as I have (managed) high blood pressure which is hereditary (it's REALLY high when not managed) and a couple of years ago I had a period of unstable angina. I am a bit overweight (2 stone to lose ideally) but am finding it impossible to shift.

My periods stopped three years ago (I'm 53) and I went through hot flushes and unspeakable itching as my skin got thinner and dried out (sexy me). Most of that has now resoved but I am left overweight, tired, sluggish and aching in every bone and joint in my body - especially my hands. I feel stiff and can't even touch my toes.

I've had friends suggest black cohosh, magnesium, various vitamins, kefir, Ashwangadalla and on and on.... I can't afford to take everything and probably wouldn't want to.

Does any one have any idea of a really effective one or two supplement solution that would be particularly helpful around the aches and tiredness?

@SlightlyJaded You've been badly advised. All of what you have said about not being able to use HRT is wrong. Can you see another doctor?

Modern HRT is not like the old types from 30 years ago.
It's replacing your own hormones with body-identical hormones (meaning they are exactly the same as your own.)

High BP when managed with drugs is not a reason to avoid HRT.

Using HRT within 10 years of the last period protects against heart disease, and estrogen keeps the arteries flexible.

Here's a link

https://thebms.org.uk/2012/10/hrt-and-cardiovascular-prevention/

Gosh. That's almost the complete opposite of what I have been told. I wonder if it's the specific medication that i am on that is the conflict? I will make another appointment. Thank you.

@OutOfSyncWithReality Unless you have serious heart issues, then HRT is not contraindicated.

What's the diagnosis with angina? Do you have thickening of your arteries or something going on with a valve?

This is a more user-friendly explanation.https://www.bloodpressureuk.org/news/news/blood-pressure-the-menopause-and-hrt-.html

Sorry that was for @SlightlyJaded !

Thank you for coming back to me @JinglingSpringbells

I'll try to keep this brief! A couple of years ago I was diagnised with high BP (readings were nearly 200/90 repeatedly). Was given Ramipril and Amplodipine. A few months later, i started getting chest discomfort with shooting pain in shoulder and eventually one was so bad, I went to a&e. Troponin was slightly elevated so they kept me in to explore for a heart- attack. No damage to heart and scans showed only the slightest thickening - barely noticable, and a tiny speck of what might have been calcium or might not. So it could be that they are worried that this was a clot and this is the problem?

I was diagnosed with unstable angina and was on blood thinners for a year (clopidogrel) and given a nitrate spray (never had to use).

I'm now on

Ramipril
Amlodipine
Asprin
Bisoprolol
Lanzaprzole
Atorvastin

And have been for two years. No more episodes of chest or shoulder or heart stuff but feel absolutely awful. No idea if anything on list is contributing? Or if it's just menopause, but I feel stuck that i can't have HRT and don't know what supplments I am allowed or that would actually help.

I've had brain fog/short temper/ hot flushes/itching - but now the dominant problem - and the one I can't stand - is the utter fatigue and aches and pains - especially in the joints in my hands. I feel like I've aged 30 years in two years and just can't stand it any more.

Sorry if that's far more than you wanted to know but just incase you had any thoughts based on my history.

Anyone got a natural suggestion for someone with oestrogen dominance? I obviously can't take any of those things that promote oestrogen.

@SlightlyJaded There is nothing in your update that shows you can't have HRT, based on both the BMS advice (linked) and the Blood Pressure UK site.

The only absolute no-no for HRT is recent heart attack or stroke or DVT.

In fact given what you are taking now, I think many specialists would advise that you take HRT! (for the heart benefits.)

The advice on HRT is that transdermal HRT (patches, or gel+Utrogestan) do not raise the risks of clots above someone's normal baseline risk.

It was the old, outdated forms of HRT (tablets and different types of HRT) that came with a small risk of stroke or clots.

If you have simply been told by your GP that you can't have HRT, it looks on the surface, that they are misinformed and out of date.

You are already having a lot of symptoms where your quality of life is poor because of loss of estrogen and (ironically) this loss of estrogen will possibly increase your risk of heart disease.

If your GP isn't open to reading the advice linked to above, or learning, then you'd probably benefit from spending £250 on a private consultation with a menopause specialist.

Have a listen to the 4 minute video here with Prof John Stevenson on CVD and HRT- covers lots of points. It's near the bottom of the page.

https://thebms.org.uk/publications/bms-tv/

'Oestrogen dominance ' is not a term or condition recognised in the UK by specialists. It was invented in the US by a doctor trying to promote a brand of progesterone cream to 'balance' estrogen. There are still some alternative practitioners who keep insisting it's a condition but they are not endorsed by UK medics.

Ok, well I have fibroids and the NHS agrees that these are caused by oestrogen so I presumably should not take anything that increases oestrogen.

Not really. It's not as black and white as that. Fibroids aren't a contraindication to HRT. You won't know really unless you try HRT.

Fibroids are just a small overgrowth of the womb lining (you'll know this anyway) and sometimes, estrogen can make them grow a bit more. But it all depends how big they are to start with and if they are bothering you much.

If they are tiny (like a couple of centimetres) that's different to some women's that are like an orange.

A low dose of estrogen and maybe the Mirena coil (if it can be fitted) might work really well. It all depends on how your body reacts to estrogen, but it's definitely not a no-no.

There are women with fibroids, endometriosis and adenomyosis who use HRT and don't necessarily suffer any worse than they did without HRT.

Maybe you can give it a whirl and see?

@Gwenhwyfar This fact sheet might help-it sets it out very simply.

https://www.balance-menopause.com/menopause-library/fibroids-and-the-menopause/

Can women with fibroids still have HRT?
The vast majority of women with fibroids can safely take HRT without any problems. The doses of oestrogen in HRT are very low so they are not usually high enough to stimulate the fibroids. Occasionally having HRT can cause fibroids to grow or bleed. Women taking HRT can still have effective treatments for their fibroids.
^^
Women who have had Uterine Artery Embolisation can safely take HRT after their menopause as the fibroids will have shrunk by the procedure and are therefore are unable to grow or be affected by oestrogen.
Many women find taking HRT very beneficial, so having fibroids should not alter your decision regarding taking HRT.

@JinglingSpringbells

Thank you very much indeed. It's generous of you to share your time and expertise with a stranger and much appreciated. I've made another GP appointment and if they are are still reluctant, I will go to a private meno specialist. My friend has one aha can recommend.

You're very welcome @SlightlyJaded
It's really common that a lot of GPs are behind the times, but also that many women (not you!) sometimes get the wrong end of the stick about not being able to use HRT for whatever reason.

There are very, very few reasons and the advice has changed hugely from20 to 30 years ago.

"Women who have had Uterine Artery Embolisation can safely take HRT after their menopause as the fibroids will have shrunk by the procedure and are therefore are unable to grow or be affected by oestrogen."

Just after the menopause and not during or in perimenopause?
I'm asking because I know they often shrink after menopause, although not always.

"A low dose of estrogen and maybe the Mirena coil (if it can be fitted) might work really well. It all depends on how your body reacts to estrogen, but it's definitely not a no-no."

I thought the Mirena was sometimes recommended for fibroids particularly because it's progestogen and not oestrogen.

"Maybe you can give it a whirl and see?"

I would be very reluctant to take such a risk - it's not like I can get them measured every day to check they're not getting bigger. I don't seem to need HRT yet anyway, the only perimenopause symptom (apart from the fibroids, which I know younger women can get too) I get is worsening PMS.

@Gwenhwyfar I think the questions you ask are covered in the link to the fact sheet by Dr Newson ( can estrogen make fibroids grow.)

Just after the menopause and not during or in perimenopause?

Women who have had Uterine Artery Embolisation can safely take HRT after their menopause.

No one post menopause would need a UAE as they are not bleeding.

I would be very reluctant to take such a risk - it's not like I can get them measured every day to check they're not getting bigger.

The Mirena can be a treatment to reduce bleeding. The reason for treating fibroids is they can cause a lot of blood loss. If they aren't causing symptoms, they are left alone.

You wouldn't need scans for your fibroids to check their size. If a Mirena stopped or reduced the bleeding that would show it was successful.

Are your fibroids causing you problems?

I take Rheal balance tonic daily and have noticed a huge difference in symptoms.

@Gwenhwyfar - I have a large fibroid and unable to stop HRT. The effects of stopping are debilitating! I'm considering UFE after which I think I can continue HRT without worrying.

I've read the balance article and I think it means post UFE women can take HRT; the post-menopause wording is confusing and unnecessary to me.

Yes, they are causing some problems, and bleeding is not the only problem they can cause, they can press on your bladder or bowel.

"No one post menopause would need a UAE as they are not bleeding."

I didn't ask about someone having an UAE after menopause actually, but I googled very quickly and found "In postmenopausal women, UAE was effective to treat symptomatic fibroids". The same source included "One patient underwent UAE due to growing leiomyoma after HRT."