What to do about sleep? (Trigger warning)

[Antarctican]

Please help.

I am 52 and haven't slept more than 5 hours in a stretch for two years, and that very rarely.

Most nights it's 3-4 hours. On Monday this week I hit a new low - 1.5 hours (according to my sleep app) and I spent the entire day feeling abominable.

I was on two pumps of oestradiol plus 14 days of utrogestan every month. But my mood got so low I had suicidal thoughts and the sweats etc were very bad so I've upped to three pumps plus the utrogestan after a phone consultation with GP. And now my sleep is even worse. I am savage for lack of sleep, I just cannot describe how bad I feel at not really sleeping for so long. I've got a bloody lavender spray, I do yoga, I don't drink caffeine after 10 am , cut out all booze, fags etc. What the fuck can I do? I need to sleep!!! I'm already getting this dread feeling as it's 10 pm, I've got to go to work tomorrow, and I can't face another night of not sleeping. Help!

So sorry that you are going through this.
At the risk of staying the obvious, and only because I didn't see it in your list of things you've done to help, but what about sleeping pills? Over the counter or prescription?
What makes you think that it is hormones that are causing it? (Not saying it is t, just curious about the background)?
Lack of sleep is so awful, I really feel for you

Personally I take a very low dose of amytriptiline 10mg when I’m in s ‘bad sleep’ phase. It works really well but I do feel a bit groggy next day but that’s preferable to feeling ill with no sleep.

Have you tried medication? I’m using over the counter sleeping tablets at the moment, they are an antihistamine. I’ve found them very good. I’ve also taken zoplicone the odd time if I’ve had a stretch of insomnia.

I sympathise and my sleep is very similar. HRT hasn't helped me much. Cetirizine hydrochloride (over the counter hayfever tablet) helps my sleep a bit. My GP, who knows I'm careful with medication, gave me Amitryptilene to take when I'm desperate for a night's sleep and it does work for me, though I'm a bit zombified the next day. I take it occasionally. Is this something you could discuss with your GP?

Zopiclone is working for me. I've just started taking it as I was the same. Waking up for at least an hour every hour and a half, sometimes awake for up to 3 hours. I can now sleep for 5 hours before waking up and then can drift off again fairly quickly.

Oh god just take some drugs, it’s fucking awful and no way to live. Ask any pharmacy for over the counter ones, they are usually an anti histamine. Then get to your GP for the proper stuff.

I also try ovaltine at bedtime (milk is soporific), really f’ing dull audio books/podcasts to bore me to sleep.

I hope you get some sleep soon

Crikey, 3-4 hrs the norm for me. I’m 46. DD7 and work full time and yes last few months I feel pretty drained.
Is there a reason you wake up? Hot, mind racing, need the loo? On your phone? (I am)
Following for sleeping tips!

Yes get on the Zopies! Zopiclone is amazing, but unlikely to be a long term fix as they are addictive, but oh so good. Get a few good nights on them to reset then the over the counter antihistamine sleeping tablets for once you’re a bit more rested.

Chlorphenamine over the counter? Just say it’s for allergies. Like everything it’s not really for long term. I use it when going through a bad sleep phase. Or melatonin? You can get that online.

Yes you need drowsy inducing antihistamine ( I take a Piriton 4mg )

Thanks everyone. I haven't discussed sleeping pills with the GP because, well, I haven't actually seen a GP in a long time. I've been put on hrt kind of remotely, to deal with periods and sweating and the like (yes I am an absolute fucking delight these days). I will ask for sleeping pills then. Fuck me. It's all so depressing.

I'm also 52. The menopause disrupted my sleep horribly, (amongst other things!) I felt like I was losing my mind for a year or so and I know my family found me challenging. I completely sympathise.

But I have now found an excellent female GP in my practice who is a few years older than me and very happy to tweak my combination of HRT to find the right balance. It's taken a while, but I'm there now and I wanted to come here to tell you to keep asking for help.

And if your GP isn't very understanding or knowledgeable about the menopause, try and find one who is. You should not be suffering like this.
Good luck!

Thank you @R0llonspring I would love to have a proper conversation with a medic about all this. Sadly it doesn't happen at my GP. You just fill in a form, they ring you, it's always someone different. I feel like nobody can hear me. (I know that sounds dramatic but I'm at my wit's end, I've been trying to sleep for an hour and a half, and I'm dreading the night ahead.) @allgrownupnow I'm pretty sure this is all menopause/hormone related, I've never had problems sleeping before, it wasn't something I worried about. I only went on hrt in the first place because my periods were so heavy, and now there's all this.

This absolutely sounds like it is menopause related.

A few thoughts - can you speak to a different gp in the practice? Can you move to a different surgery? Ask for referral to a menopause clinic at the hospital? Go to a private menopause clinic?

Also join some forums for menopause but fundamentally you need your hrt adjusting by someone who knows what they are doing.

A work colleague has found antidepressants have helped her sleep but she is on a waiting list for menopause clinic

Good luck x

@Antarctican although the gel is flavour of the month, it's not for everyone. HRT isn't a one size fits all and it could be that you would do better on patches, or spray, or even the old fashioned tablets. How are your other menopause symptoms? If you're not getting relief from symptoms with gel, I would go back to your GP and ask about swapping to a patch and see whether that suits you better.

I found that the gel didn't suit me at all, the symptoms came back very quickly when I was swapped from patches - because the patches were really difficult to get at that point.

Regularly not getting enough sleep is torture and makes it very difficult to function in everyday life. Everything spirals from there.

Make this a priority for you to get sorted ahead of everything else.

I know it's difficult when you feel so overwhelmed, but your life will really improve in every way if you can 'fix' this.

Your GP surgery sound poor, personally I would find a new one, (can neighbours recommend a good one etc?)

I had a large combination of debilitating menopause symptoms about 9 months ago. After steadily tweaking my HRT, I feel like the person I was before the peri started (around age 46.)

I gave in and take piritize at bedtime.

high dose magnesium and melatonin?