Talk me into HRT

[DustyLee123]

So I’ve got the Mirena in to control my heavy frequent periods. I asked about HRT gel some time back and got it, but stopped after 3 days due to bleeding. I started and stopped once more due to bleeding again, and then decided to give up.
So now I’m fed up of being angry and getting no real pleasure from life. I don’t think I’m depressed, I enjoy walking the dog and coffees out. I just can’t find any motivation to go on holiday, buy clothes, go to a gig etc.
Im reluctant to take it because this is my only symptom. I’ve no not flushes, I sleep ok ( when it’s not hot ! )due to magnesium and a good sleep routine. I take omega 3 for achy joints, and vit B for energy. That’s the way I prefer to do it, treat each symptom individually and as naturally as possible. But I give up on the anger and lack of pleasure, I can’t find a cure.
I really don’t want to take HRT. I’m really concerned about the slight cancer risk, and I’ve just lost a relative to cancer very quickly.
So please talk to me about the benefits to a 52 year old who is fed up of being angry and hating her husband.
Thanks.

My PMT is markedly better.

I've gone from not even wanting to go for a walk with DH, to going on a luxury week away without the DC that I actually looked forward to!

I want to socialise with people again rather than stay at home and cry.

That said, utrogestan brought back all the symptoms, so I'm now taking it vaginally and about to try the coil.

I no longer need to wee as much, I'm more tolerant, my skin looks better.

Switched my flat mood for happiness; got my libido back; UTIs banished.

I feel markedly better. It’s defo worth it.

Transdermal estrogen + utrogestan has no cancer risk for at least 5 years.

After that there may be a risk of an increase in cases of 1 women in 1000 in a year (cancer) but that figure is for the older synthetic progestogens not Utrogestan.

Any risk is unwanted of course, but the risk of being overweight (BMI over 30) is 8 x the risk of HRT.

@Moredarkchocolateplease sorry to hijack thread but does taking the utrogestan vaginally help at all do you think? I've just started my third attempt at hrt after having a breakdown 18montjs ago. I'm now on various antidepressants/anti anxiety meds and feeling quite stable. But I do think it might be hormonal so am keen to try hrt but each time I start the utrogestan (vaginally) the anxiety comes back and I panic and stop.

I was reluctant to try it due to cancer risk too, as my mum died of BC due to taking HRT. However watching the Davina doc convinced me the rewards far outweigh the risks.

For me the benefits have been mainly physical - reversal of urinary/continue issues and shrivelled clitoris to name but two! If you don’t have dryness/tightness/shrinkage down there yet, once you do it may change your mind! I’m sure it doesn’t happen to everyone but if you’re unlucky then it’s shit.

I also noticed my boobs are now fuller again, and I look younger. I actually look in the mirror and smile because I like what I see!

If there are any downsides in future I am still happy I made the choice because the last couple of years would have been awful without it.

Plus I have multiple orgasms just from kissing. Which never happened before

Maybe read up about all the roles of oestrogen in women's bodies,it blew my mind how important it is! I put it off for years but have no qualms about using it now.

The cancer risk is far far less than, for example, drinking alcohol. I stopped drinking for a few years with that in mind, and now only drink occasionally.

My mum died from BC. I’m 54.

Im not fat, I exercise, I don’t smoke, I don’t drink much, I have a great diet. I do everything (else) to mitigate cancer risk. The horrendous brain fog, and I mean horrendous, together with osteopenia, and no sleep was just not worth it. Supplements didn’t touch those symptoms.

@SameKeyThough yes a massive difference for me.

I had constant awful suicidal thoughts for three months taking it orally, but vaginally I just had a bit of short tempered behaviour.

@Moredarkchocolateplease thank you, that's good to hear..

@DustyLee123 so regarding your worry about cancer from taking the oestrogel I think there is a lot of information out there that 'debunks' that risk now. There is a great informative podcast with xx and the head gynea (I think) from a big hospital that talk through that very clearly. Like @Pamspeople says oestrogen serves so many functions in your body. I too was amazed to find out how much.

Oestrogen protects your bones, brain, and heart. Once your bone starts to loose density from lower oestrogen you never get that back. It lowers your risk to get alzheimers.

There is a great informative podcast with Dr Lousie Newson and the head gynea (I think) from a big hospital that talk through that very clearly and is not very long and easy to understand.

I too have a mirena coil. Which I went with (from being on the mini pill for 5.5 years) just to make the HRT a bit easier. I am on oestrogel since not even 1.5 months back. Within two days of being on it I felt like that heavy continual fatigue I had had for ages was lifted. Just like that. I am starting to feel more connected to my feelings again (before I could watch my much beloved children cry and not feel anything. I am less reactive.

All of that aside I am on it for the long term health benefits.

Yes, my clitoris is disappearing !! I struggle to orgasm, but if I do it’s not a nice feeling. I’d like to get that back.
I could just do without the bleeding, and I don’t want my boobs to get any bigger !
I think I’ll commit to 3 months and see how I’m feeling.

This podcast episode https://peterattiamd.com/joannmanson/ with JoAnn Manson, the principle Principal Investigator for the Women’s Health Initiative (WHI)will tell you the ins and out of HRT, including cancer risk and what HRT should be taken for and for how long.

@DustyLee123 glad to see the PPs seem to have convinced you .

One of my friends recently started after avoiding it for a long time and cannot believe how amazing she felt so quickly - she is now evangelical and telling others to try.

I have just read the Davina book - you might like these extracts .

If you try it you need to give it some time to settle it isn't like a switch on off thing!
If you get unwanted side effects you
Can play around with doses and products to get it right.

I hope it's helps you it's life changing !

@timefornewme2023 I'm going to pick a few holes in the book by Davina, and the extracts you pasted. (I am not aware if she has had the book proof-read by medical experts, but some of her claims are not entirely accurate.)

1 Exercise (in terms of numbers) does reduce the risk of breast cancer for all women (with or without using HRT.) However it is definitely not certain, or as simple, to say conclude that by exercising you are completely mitigating the extra risk between HRT and BC.

I completely understand where she's got her figures but it's definitely not right to say do XYZ and it will mitigate all risk, to zero. https://www.womens-health-concern.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/WHC-UnderstandingRisksofBreastCancer-MARCH2017.pdf

Just because exercise reduces the risk for all women by 7 per 1000 (see link) it doesn't mean that it negates the extra 4 cases for women using HRT.
It's really sloppy 'science' to deduce that.

2 The risk of micronised progesterone as part of HRT. The BMS statement says very clearly that research shows ^no additional risk for 5 years' use'. It does not say there is no risk after 5 years. It's not right for Davina to say 'there is no risk'. There are no long term studies yet on this, other than two - one in France and the other in Denmark- which show it is likely to be safer than synthetic types.

It really bugs me that these celebs write these books where they make subtle shifts in the science to give a very different slant.

@AnIntrovert The WHI study was denounced years ago as being inaccurate.

The US is actually quite behind the UK and EU in terms of prescribing HRT.

I've not listened to the podcast but the criticism of the WHI trial was the women were very old when they started HRT, they used synthetic progestogens, they were nearly all overweight, and I think there was a selection bias on who they included in in the study.

No one takes any notice of the WHI report any more or the UK's Million Women study which is also flawed.

I’m assuming that a mirena coil would be synthetic progesterone ?

Am very happy for you to correct this @JinglingSpringbells
You clearly know your stuff (and have helped me before !)
If I am honest I found the whole book a bit menopause 'dumbed down' but then I do feel she has done a lot of women a lot of good by talking about this subject.

Anyway there is a Dr involved called Naomi Potter but I haven't seen what
Her credentials are.

Yes, but because it’s delivered directly to the uterus it’s a much lower dose than tablets you take orally would be.

@timefornewme2023 It's tricky isn't it? In some ways her book and publicity is a good thing, but on the other hand it's wrong to only give half the facts. I've not read her book and don't know if she links to research. It is very wrong however to say there is 'no risk' with Utrogestan because that is not what the menopause consultants are saying. They say there is a lower risk, and it's very small, based on the figures they have, but that's not to say there is no risk at all. (I'm interested in this as a long-term user of HRT, who's constantly picking my dr's brains on it all because I am concerned!)

the utrogestan part floors me every month so really wish i didn't have to take that...i wonder if the mirena alone isnt helping your mood/drive?
I'd say go for the gel as you'll get your 'bits' back with the right amount and probably feel better generally. Took me ages to sort my oestrogen dose, currently on 1.5mg sandrena per day.

It's very hard as I think really the onus is on us as users of HRT to do our own research and risk assessments. I was prescribed in about a 5 minute appointment.
No regrets though.

You can ask for advice on this - I struggled with the Utrogestan too.
My GP wasn't familiar with the using it vaginally option which many people adopt but put me on one tablet a day for 25 out of 28 days instead of 2 for 12 (or14)days and it worked a treat - zero side effects.

@JinglingSpringbells might have
More advice too .