Oestrogel: new packaging (yet again)?

[Cosmetichamster]

Hi ladies,

Just got this month's prescription for Oestrogel, and I have been issued with a bottle that is new (to me at least). Have a look at the photo: left is what I have known and used since June this year, on the right is the new bottle, also from Besins, same labels, same ingredients, and long use by date (07/25). Obtained from a reputable pharmacy, which has filled all my previous HRT prescriptions.

Has anyone seen this sort of thing? Slightly freaked out here.

I flagged my issue to Besins (live in EU) mid-March. Still waiting to hear back from them after having provided additional information. Have stopped all oestrogen since then. I see my gynaecologist on Tuesday. Fortunately, my physical symptoms are okay, barring some minor discomfort (VA?). Shooting pains in breasts, bloating, bleeding, and weight gain have all but vanished like snow for the sun. But my partner says my mood is awful. Brain fog is not great but not too bad. It’s a case of damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

@Lotusflower75 You can't guarantee that a private prescription will get you the one you want, although it depend where you get the gel.

All my HRT has been private for 15 years. I've had every type of bottle going and they have changed several times over the years.

Local chemists have (in the past) dispensed Oestrodose a few times and when I requested Oestrogel, I was told they simply couldn't get it (this was a few years back when there were shortages for other reasons.) I didn't notice any difference, to be honest.

My most recent supply, from the pharmacy in a private hospital, is the 'old' flagon bottle but other than one bottle (which I've not used yet) they have all got the green square. I have one bottle with an orange square.

I can't be sure, of course, but my guess is that when a private pharmacy requests their stock they may have to accept whatever their wholesaler can get, even if they ask for something different.

JinglingSpringbells I agree private prescriptions will not guarantee anything as you rightly said they have no control in that sense over the supply they receive.

i suspect because we are all so different with differing levels of our own hormones possibly still circulating, varying ability to absorb hrt and genetically wired in a myriad of ways that we all can react (or not) be aware (or not) to/of any minute changes. That would explain why some have had this problem and some not.

it’s a frustrating conundrum and one that is nigh on impossible to investigate unless your talking randomised human testing involving blood tests on every batch produced and even then it’s not going to affect everyone I suspect.

maybe one day the answers will be found - if they can discover certain mysteries of the universe and send people into space then surely helping us out with menopause isn’t too far away with completely bespoke hormone profiling etc 🤣🤣

It's certainly interesting listening to all the conversations about Oestrogel. I'm disappointed when a lot of the women are not listened to and basically told, it's your imagination, it must be something else, your body has changed etc. There are pabsolutely, without a doubt, changes in Oestrogel in the last few months. I have been happily on it for years, except last year for a short time when pharmacists were dishing out ones which we were not prescribed and which we certainly did not want. Then suddenly a few months back, with no warning all my symptoms returned with a vengeance. I was so puzzled and could not understand it. I begun to dread night time as I couldn't sleep, i was hot, sore, uncomfortable, tossed and turned all night. I bought new even lighter bedding hoping it would help. The worst thing though is all my joints. I ache all over my body and im struggling to climb my stair. I finally remembered this is what it was like before I went onto hrt. So the penny has dropped and I know Oestrogel has changed. I've just googled it and now found these conversations. I'm relieved and at the same time absolutely livid. I don't think Drs, pharmacists etc realise the huge impact HRT has on our bodies. Something has got to be done about this.

Hi Beulah99 report the batch numbers on here https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/
the more those affected speak up the more likely they will investigate it.
There is definitely a change as my symptoms come back when I switch to the defective batch gel. I’ve kept it and covered up the numbers so I don’t know which I’m using just to prove it’s not all in my head!
Reporting it on other forums and clinics is a good idea too.

Thank you for this - I too thought I was imagining it but when I went back to the original bottle went back to feeling normal (for me). I am very sensitive to changes and earlier in the year had been putting it on the wrong part of my legs because of the cold mornings and then couldn’t function properly with huge daily anxiety and fatigue. Then realised I had been applying it wrongly 🙃 I must admit I did wonder if I was imagining the bottle change effect but the mood difference is dramatic even if in theory it shouldn’t be.

I am now 60 and HRT is life saving for me.

Ah this thread has helped me make sense of things. I got a new prescription of Oestrogel about 3 weeks ago. I've been using it for 2 years and it's truly been life changing. I wanted to increase to 4 pumps as I was feeling a little off. So I started on 4 pumps when I got the new prescription. It's in the cylindrical bottle. Felt not quite right on 4 pumps, definitely no better, and then increasingly worse so I reduced back down to 3 pumps after 10 days. I thought maybe it was the increase making me feel worse....

And then I've just felt worse and worse on it. Extreme brain fog first, the stuff I've lost/missed/forgotten about in the last weeks is embarrassing! And then in the last few days I've felt all ragey and emotional again. Sleep also affected. And I had my first hot flush in years yesterday.

I honestly thought I was losing my mind until I came across this thread via a link on a thread about what to do next if 4 pumps doesn't help.

Of course I can't get a Dr's appointment (virtually impossible around here), and I spoke to the pharmacist but he said he was unaware of any issues and I needed to see the Dr.

I'll keep trying to get a Dr's appointment, but meanwhile I've just used Boots online to try and get some Sandrena prescribed as an alternative (I've had it before during an Oestrogel shortage and I think it was ok). I really hope it's approved, I've never used Boots online pharmacy before. I've got £137 in the bank and I've just spent £58 on the Sandrena which shows just how very, very desperate I am right now!

Thanks to everyone who's posted on here. You've saved my sanity.

I’ve been using oestrogel for 3 yrs, no problems until this new packaging changed! Sleep disturbances back, depression, hot flushes, joint pain, itchy sensitive skin and IBS all back with a bloody vengeance. It’s been hell dealing with that plus chronic back pain from spondylitis and bladder and bowel prolapse too. I had to give up my nursing career because of all this and it’s broke me! There’s definitely something very suspicious going on for women to be experiencing this and I absolutely am not surprised the pharmaceutical CO have refused to acknowledge there’s a problem! I’m now using a different form of oestrogen so hoping symptoms calm down soon.

Following this with interest as I've just recently started a new bottle in the last 2 weeks with the new packaging and noticed firstly the amount dispensed seems smaller and also my symptoms seem to have returned. I'm bone achingly tired, feeling very meh, and had the odd palpitation which I hadn't had in ages 😕

Up your dosage and it will help. I posted earlier upthread when my symptoms came back when I was given the new cylinder bottles. I increased my dosage to 3 pumps (instead of my usual 2) and then my symptoms settled down again.

It is definitely those cylinder bottles causing it (or some change related to the new bottles/manufacture etc). I had 2 months using them where I had to use 3 pumps daily. When I collected my next prescription, it was the old cylinder bottles (hurray!) and now I'm back to 2 pumps daily with no change in symptoms.

Like others, I raised a yellow card but was told there was no difference between the two bottles. But that's clearly not the case for at least some of us.

Thank you HundredMilesAnHour I will definitely up my dosage. Feeling relieved in a way that I read this thread and figured out why I was feeling so dismal again, it's just staggering how quickly my symptoms started to return!

It is the same gel, just in a different bottle.

They would not be able to change the format of the gel without about 5 years' worth of clinical studies...

I had the exact same thoughts until all my symptoms came back.

You’d like to think eh? It’s definitely not the same in some way as so many women wouldn’t be experiencing symptoms coming back on one batch /bottle and then disappearing again on another.

And yes they wouldn’t be able to change it without clinical trials that’s correct - doesn’t mean there are variations due to temperature /storage or dispenser alterations.

if nothing else this thread is a supportive forum for women to perhaps feel reassured they not imagining it or feel gas lit about it. That’s a positive thing 👍🏼😁

The gel is stable up to 75F according to the packaging.

If anyone is having issues then try using a little more than usual.

It's highly unlikely that so many bottles have something wrong with them as pharma is VERY tightly controlled and every batch goes through rigorous quality control from start to finish. More than one quality specialist checks each stage of production including all the raw materials as they arrive on site.

I'm not saying I disbelieve posters, but I'm genuinely puzzled as to what is going on.

I’m wondering if the pump is dispensing slightly less in the new bottles? Surely they would’ve tested that though?

I did this and started bleeding when I was using more, we shouldn’t have to use more if there isn’t something going on. Some women are already on the highest licensed dose, so probably wouldn’t be a good idea to up the dose.

I have a close friend who has a very snr role in quality assurance in a pharma company producing medicines.

Occasionally, there may be an issue with a batch but it's always noted and it wouldn't continue for months.

The control system is rigorous and in the case of Oestrogel, the government has asked for an investigation and have reported on that.

So far, I've been using the flagon bottles with a green square. I know it's being absorbed as I've had heavy withdrawal bleeds (which isn't possible if using it continuously/ combined.)

If you are in peri it's worth noting if your bleeds are less if you feel it's not working like it used to.

Ok, sooooo, I started using the new smaller cylindrical bottle last December. My symptoms returned. I was getting hot flushes and waking through the night, boiling. I had an oestrogen blood test a month later. The blood test showed that my oestrogen was around 80-something - below the lowest normal level. I then got hold of some oestrogel in the original, conical bottle and have been using it since. I had a blood test again a couple of weeks ago and my oestrogen levels were up to the max, over 300. Everybody is saying the product is the same but I really don’t think it is. I even wondered if I’d been given dummy/demonstration bottles! My GP has passed the I go on to a pharmacist in the know so hopefully I might hear something helpful soon.

Yes increasing to 4 pumps has helped me and symptoms calming down now.

I'm really fed up with reading posts on this thread that suggest "it's all in the mind". I mean come on - do the people making such comments think we've all got nothing better to do? If no-one had experienced any problems then the thread wouldn't even exist. I've been using Oestrogel for a very long time going back to when the containers were a gold coloured cylinder. People only started questioning the strength of the gel when the labelling changed to Oestrodose and it started coming in the blue-green and white containers. They later scrapped the Oestrodose label and started calling it all Oestrogel again. The only rogue containers I've encountered personally have been blue-green and white with a curly circle symbol at the top and a green square on the back. My usual two pumps simply weren't doing the job - hence I looked for discussion forums to try and ascertain if it was just me! As I said - if there had never been a problem such threads would never have started.

@GellyI go as far back as the white and gold containers too. I thought that the Oestrodose bottles were supplied not as the new type but as a stop-gap when there was a production issue? It was a parallel import and Oestrodose was the name of it in France.

I know that at the time I asked the pharmacy not to give it to me, but at times it was all they could get. Interestingly, I never had that type from a private hospital so I did wonder if the local pharmacies were buying it at a cheaper wholesale price.

So I'm now using the flagon bottles with the orange square. Supposed to the the 'right' one per this thread. But its STILL not working. I've gone from 2 pumps to 4 pumps and i'm still waking up mid sleep soaked in perspiration! It's like i'm taking no oestrogen. I wonder if it's an absorption issue? Someone has mentioned lighter withdrawal bleeds - i'm seeing this too - does it mean that i'm not absorbing enough?
Should I move to patches perhaps? Anyone having the same problem despite going back to the 'right' bottles/product?

Absolutely agree! The ingredients must have changed! Steady on the gel for almost a year, bottle changed and then I’m up all night with restless legs, sore and tender boobs and the only thing that’s changed it the bottle shape?!?! If it’s happening to so many women then something is wrong!
I’ve had to go onto the patches again and start all over again 😢😢😢😢😡

Just curious- has anyone else reported this on yellow card? I’m in the process and waiting to hear back from Besins although I’m not sure what I’m expecting to hear. I doubt they are going to admit to any changes or mistakes even if something has changed, as they’ve a reputation to uphold. Wondering how many others have reported it ir if it’s a complete waste of time? 🙄