Oestrogel: new packaging (yet again)?

[Cosmetichamster]

Hi ladies,

Just got this month's prescription for Oestrogel, and I have been issued with a bottle that is new (to me at least). Have a look at the photo: left is what I have known and used since June this year, on the right is the new bottle, also from Besins, same labels, same ingredients, and long use by date (07/25). Obtained from a reputable pharmacy, which has filled all my previous HRT prescriptions.

Has anyone seen this sort of thing? Slightly freaked out here.

@Azaleah yes I understand that there are lots of ongoing issues with different bottles. I’m fairly new to this as on HRT for a year and now feel pretty fortunate that I was given the blue topped oestrogel from the start - until now. It’s totally s**t that women’s health is compromised in this way. They need to do a recall of the batches. I’ve got to send mine back via my pharmacy for Besins to test it. If it did that with every bottle as they’re not fit for function I’ll have none left!

Have you been on the orange square or green square bottles?

I don't think they will recall the batches because I don't think it's a batch problem, I think they have changed suppliers of the ingredients and they're struggling to find a balanced formula, not to mention that the manufacturer was Delpharm and now it's Besins itself.

There's a patient information leaflet with THREE manufacturers, Besins Manufacturing Belgium, Delpharm Belgium and Laboratoires Besins International, France, they can't make up their minds!

https://mhraproducts4853.blob.core.windows.net/docs/706fd012dcaa5a21fb2dc60baae39584eebcae27

So went back to the doctors. She has told me to increase to four pumps and take 2 tablets from day 15 for 14 days. I've only ever know two pumps one tablet at bedtime. I'm assuming increase oestrogen = increase in progesterone. Does this sound right?
She didn't know of any problems with regards to the new shaped bottles.

Yes that sounds right @mrsnjw if you increase oestrogen and still have a womb you need to protect it by upping the progesterone. That stops your uterus lining becoming too thick. I saw a doctor today too & she was also unaware of the oestrogel bottle/manufacturing issue either. I feel like a broken record 🤣🤣

I’m taking 3 pumps of gel and 1 utrogestan every day …does that sound about right? I was on evorel conti before but patches didn’t stick…just stared this new regime and feel nervous

@ilovebrie8 yes if you dont have periods you take utrogestan every day. I am the same 2/3 pumps a day & utrogestan 100mg every night

@Azaleah The whole thing is very strange. I guess there's a delay in needing to take action in this route? They could do nothing with the contact they get, saves them testing. Who knows,I just want the help to be what it used to be.

Thanks @SamR36

I've decided to go back to patches. I can't risk instability with the gel and it seems like the clear cap is everywhere. It's frustrating but I didn't really have any issue with patches I just thought I'd try gel when I tried (unsuccessfully) testosterone.

Ive been weighing every day - was finishing off an "old shape" bottle and no issues whatsoever with weights. Soon back on to the new shape.

@Mickymoomoo77 Would you mind saying what didn't work for you with the Testogel/Testosterone? I was considering giving a go, but wasn't sure how others were finding it. I know we're all different but it's interesting to see how others fared on it. If you'd rather not say, of course I understand.

@Muttley47 of course no problem. I'm going to be honest I ordered it even though I felt pretty good- I thought it might make me superwoman and help my lifting and general fitness 😬 I went through a private consultant who is happy to prescribe. My testosterone was showing slightly low using menopause clinic metrics.

Basically I lasted 6 weeks and started to slowly feel like I did before starting HRT. It was not pleasant. Blood tests showed my oestrogen was sitting at 787 and my testosterone had actually lowered. I felt terrible. I don't seem to be able to tolerate anything over 75mcg of oestrogen in a patch or over 3 pumps of gel. I suspect my oestrogen levels weren't quite high enough when starting testosterone and it converted to oestrogen. I've just recently had to revert back to 3 pumps of gel (or more likely a 75 patch due to the ongoing issues) after trying to up oestrogen dose. I just can't. I feel awful.

I've had others say its amazing but for me it just didn't work but that's not fo say it won't in future.

Another victim of the new bottles here 😭 I was originally on Evorel patches but started getting breakthrough bleeds, my gp are honestly rubbish when it comes to menopause issues and you can’t book a consultation, you can only request urgent appointments all done by phone .
it was impossible to be seen so I went to a private specialist in May who put me on oestrogel and cyclogest and I have honestly felt like a new woman . My symptoms of insomnia , night sweats palpitations and anxiety vanished . The big thing for me was sleep , I would go to bed exhausted but be awake after an hour then wake every hour in the night before the oestrogel
cut to September I had a follow up appointment and my specialist said they were using a different online pharmacy as the other one took too long to send prescriptions out .
she did a six month prescription, it arrived the next day - new shape bottles .
I started the new bottles at the end of September and within a week noticed I wasn’t sleeping so well .. cut to today .. I haven’t had a decent night sleep for a month .. I’m so exhausted I can’t function .. I’ve been awake all night with palpitations and flushes and found this thread .
I’ve dug my last remaining old bottle (yellow square ) out if the cupboard and started that .. but I’ve got six bottles of useless gel in the cupboard and no idea what to do .. I suspect I’ll have to ask for a new prescription and go back to the old online pharmacy who stock the blue cap and just bin the other bottles .. or go back to patches .
I feel so angry our health is being messed around with like this

WEIGHING

Have you thought about counting the number of pumps you get out of the bottle?

Okay, we're going to have to wait a whole month to see the total, but it might be better than weighing which with the best will in the world isn't going to be that accurate.

Each bottle holds at least 64 pumps, (plus the amount from the first pump when priming the bottle.)

I usually mark the date on the carton anyway, so I know where I am with it, (if I'm going away and would need to pack another bottle.)

There should absolutely be no short-fall in the total amount (80gms) so if you/we find that there is a LOT more than 64 pumps, that means each dose is less.

Hmm that’s worth trying
I was actually stood in the kitchen at 5.30 this morning trying to weigh out each dose but my scales aren’t sensitive enough .. however it could record 4 doses (digital scales ) and weighed them at 3.4 grams which is less than it should be .. however I may need to try with more sensitive scales

Well, once I get to use the new bottle I will be counting the number of pumps. I will be concerned if there is an issue as I'm using gel mainly for bone density. Any short-fall in dose will be relevant as 2 pumps per day is the prescribed, effective amount.

2 pumps a day is 32 days out of the bottle.

Ok call me crazy ! Lack of sleep doesn’t help but I’ve just decanted an entire fresh new bottle of the clear top .. 60 pumps and by the last two I could see it wasn’t coming out as much

I’ve still got tons of the stuff in the cupboard so it’s not an issue wasting one .. I’d be happy to Chuck it all in the bin to be honest .. I’m guarding my last blue to with my life

Right cracked open a Brand new bottle - 78 pumps !

So by my reckoning that’s under a gram of dosage each time

So you found one new bottle (white top) was giving around 62 pumps and another was 78?

If that's what you mean, you must write to Besins with those stats. And send the empty bottles.

Hate to burst any bubbles here but I have been measuring, weighing, documenting, blood tests, etc since December 2022. I tried increasing the dose decreasing the dose..sent a bottle back to Besins for analysis...had a pharmacist friend check alcohol and consistency levels..you name it. The white bottles do not work!

So what was found with the analysis? Are you saying that the alcohol etc was ok, that the weight was okay etc?

If it doesn't work, then it is not going to work for women using it for osteopenia or osteoporosis. They won't discover this for 2 years or more when they have their next DEXA scan.

Certain types and doses of HRT are prescribed for this. (ie it's not just hit and miss, it's only some types and certain doses.)

If it's not working, are women using it getting a withdrawal bleed? The ones using it on a cycle?

If they are, then estrogen is being absorbed.

My bleeds are lighter/ heavier in direct proportion to the dose. ( varied it from 1 to 2 pumps over several years.)

If it's building up the endometrium then it is being absorbed. The question of course is by how much.

Which pharmacy is this and how do you make sure that they will send the blue top bottle?