Oestrogel: new packaging (yet again)?

[Cosmetichamster]

Hi ladies,

Just got this month's prescription for Oestrogel, and I have been issued with a bottle that is new (to me at least). Have a look at the photo: left is what I have known and used since June this year, on the right is the new bottle, also from Besins, same labels, same ingredients, and long use by date (07/25). Obtained from a reputable pharmacy, which has filled all my previous HRT prescriptions.

Has anyone seen this sort of thing? Slightly freaked out here.

@MargotMoon The following link to the British Menopause Society table of equivalent doses is correct.

https://thebms.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/03-BMS-TfC-HRT-Practical-Prescribing-NOV2022-A.pdf

On Page 2, you can see gel as sachets and gel as a pump.

For you, using 4 pumps of gel, the equivalent for Sandrena is 2-3mgs.
4 pumps is high on the table and you would need 3 mgs of Sandrena, either as 1mgs sachets.

@Azaleah I was wondering if that was a typo. Why do the Drs say 2x 0.5 sachets of Sandrena? I was looking at the pump and Sandrena just now thinking, the pump looks like it's more mg's. I've got some funny symptoms on Sandrena like feeling hot in my head, more precursor migrainey and really angry. I didn't have that with Oestrogel. I was thinking of trying another 0.5 sachet = 3.
A menopause specialist nurse and Chelsea and Westminster said that many women are now having issues with Oestrogel, that something is definitely up with the ingredients.

These might be stupid questions, so apologies in advance. But why is it that Oestrogel is favoured by doctors, it seems it's favoured over Sandrena?
Also, there are similar ingredients in Sandrena, like Trolomine, purified water...but it's more concentrated, so why do Drs not say that if you're on 2 pumps of Oestrogel you need 3x 05 sachets of Sandrena mine said 2?
I can't believe we all need to be here, sharing this information and not initially being 'heard' and now being told we have to contact Besin etc. If the doctors all did it, it might have more impact on Besin.
Maybe it's the lack of hormones, but this is really messing with peoples quality of life! I don't feel good, but am trying to persevere with Sandrena as the stress of trying to get the lesser of evil bottles of Oestrogel is stressful.

Has anyone got the box for both packs? If so is there any difference on the box or the size of it? I'm trying to get hold of the conical ones but the pharmacies won't open them 😬

@Muttley47 I'm in the same boat, I switched from Oestrogel to Lenzetto and trying to find a balance, I've noticed the spray dispenser can be inconsistent so I'm resigned to the opinion pump and spray dispensers can be unreliable, however my life before HRT was a nightmare so I'm happy to muddle through.

I switched to Sandrena. I was on two pumps of oestrogel which worked brilliantly until the new bottle saga.

Doctor started me on one 0.5 sachet then moved onto 1.0. I don’t feel quite as good as on the two pumps of Oestrogel but I want to keep my dose as low as possible due to heavy bleeding. Doctor has said I can up to by 0.5 to give me the equivalent Oestrogel amount but I don’t feel I need to.

I’m very happy with the switch actually.

@bbcfolkie the older style bottle the box is bigger. You can tell the difference if you have two side by side. Which bottle are you looking for?

@Hartieharts I think JinglingBells was replying to your post here but tagged me by mistake.

I want the one with the blue lid. Thanks, I'll measure the box I have and take my tape measure around the pharmacies 😂

I emailed Besins again this week and they claim to be investigating...but they said that when I emailed a year ago!

@LastHives how did you get on with the measuring? Have you bought super sensitive scales?

Someone asked why Oestrogel was favoured over Sandrena.

I don't think it is.

The only difference is that Sandrena starts at 0.5mgs which is lower than 1 pump of Oestrogel at 0.75mgs.

For women who start HRT later (ie over 60) they start on a very low dose.
Also, for women who want to titrate the dose by 0.5mgs, it's easier to do that with sachets of 0.5mgs.

It's possible, of course, to only use half a pump of gel, but this is always guesswork- either by pumping it out or discarding half the blob.

Some women prefer sachets if they want to pack their HRT when they are going away.

There is a slight variation between the consistency, so I'm told by someone who tried it.

Just an an update on the under dosage issue, I have been weighing each pump for the past three days and I’ve got: 1.16g, 1.01g, 1.29g, 0.95g, 1.16g so bar the one they are all under. I did a comparison with a bottle of Nivea Q10 body lotion and weighed out each pump and each one was either 1.80, 1.81 or 1.82 so almost identical. There is a serious issue with the pump on the new oestrogel gel and I advise anyone to email Besin and submit a yellow card report. I heard back from this yesterday and they told me to hold on to my existing bottle for testing, so some of these oestrogel readings are still under dosing with a different bottle.

has anyone contacted the national newspapers about this yet? I can’t see anything so I’m going to write to them over the weekend.

I also contacted Besins, they asked me to send them a bottle of Oestrogel that has gel still in it (obviously, as they can then check) but as I have had to go up from 2 and a half pumps to 4 pumps, every bit of gel I have is precious, I'm not sending them a half empty bottle! Not yet tackled my GP to get them to prescribe more. I suggested that as many women had reported issues, they took some bottles off their production line and checked them before sending them out to pharmacies.

@vicie I saw your post about writing to the papers.

TBH the way to get some media attention is to go onto places like X and ask for a health journalist to pick up the story for you. You won't get very far (sorry!) as an unknown just contacting them. You need to find a journalist who is happy to take this on and use their contacts with the papers, to have any chance of it running.

@BatshitCrazyWoman

yes I’m going to have to raise this with my GP too to put it in my notes that as things now stand with these new bottles, I’m going to be using more each time and will run out quicker.

Ok ignore my last pics. These images relate to the straight up and down one as shown below. What I found was that you really have to depress the pump to get near the correct amount. Hopefully you can read what it says on the scales - 1.28, 1.22 and 1.26. Tomorrow I will do the other shape.

Ahhh! I’m just about to start this having been on patches and have been given the new bottle that’s all my pharmacy has …do I need to double up my dose then?

@BatshitCrazyWoman The lady on IG who started weighing the doses of the gel (bloomingthroughthemenopause) said in another video that she asked Besins to replace the bottle she was going to send to them and it took 4 weeks for them to respond... no, they won't send a replacement bottle, but she will send it anyway, so don't waste your time and gel sending your bottle to Besins!

No need to double up your dose. What patches have you been on?

The menopause coachers (whatever that is) are on the case 😂

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/tr-transformations_heads-up-menopausal-women-on-oestrogel-activity-7111737469087178753-CNgw?trk=public_profile_like_view

Sorry for the typos. I like her pic 👏🏻 Now we need a menopausal celeb on the case. Or the MHRA 🙄

@Azaleah i have been on evorel conti and told to start the gel plus utrogestan pills. Am nervous anyway and now I’ve read this… I’m already anxious 😕

Don't worry, it takes some time to transition from one HRT regimen to another but you'll get there 🤞🏻🤞🏻😽

Thank you @Azaleah it’s a minefield…my doctor not v clued up…I asked about doses and she said ask the pharmacist.

😳 Keep us posted. Although we can't offer medical advice we are doing our best to investigate all things related to menopause and HRT. Evidence based information is power 💪