Oestrogel: new packaging (yet again)?

[Cosmetichamster]

Hi ladies,

Just got this month's prescription for Oestrogel, and I have been issued with a bottle that is new (to me at least). Have a look at the photo: left is what I have known and used since June this year, on the right is the new bottle, also from Besins, same labels, same ingredients, and long use by date (07/25). Obtained from a reputable pharmacy, which has filled all my previous HRT prescriptions.

Has anyone seen this sort of thing? Slightly freaked out here.

@JinglingXmasbells This is a discussion forum, I am just replying to your posts, not being confrontational at all. You seem to be looking forward to it though.

You say 'The piece that Dr Briggs wrote was purely observational. The patient wasn't on a trial. It was as far as we can tell, a single case study.'

Yes, I agree the article is observational, that's exactly what I have posted. So what?

You say 'So there is possibly no record of what she used.'

'Possibly', let's see what she has to say about it.

You say 'I know you are in Brazil and maybe the way things work in pharmacies etc is slightly different.'

I'm not talking about Brazilian products or pharmacies. I'm talking about products made in France and Belgium and sold worldwide, including the UK.

I know how the UK pharmacies work and how estradiol gel is prescribed.

I'm happily retired and live wherever I want.

You say 'The article we're talking about was based on whether high doses of gel could cause side effects'

So what? Lotusflower75's question was about the BMS statement, and the article was in the reference. I just gave my opinion on this article, given the fact that the others mainly deal with estradiol implants.

BTW, have you tried the 'new' Oestrogel packaging yet? The cylindrical bottles?

@Azaleah thank you for all that info it’s very interesting. I appreciate how you get your point across and it’s clear to me that you are very thorough with your research and I value that. I am on a high dose because I don’t have a womb and so I find this very interesting. The point I was trying to make is that the media will run with this, it doesn’t help us who are bona fide poor absorbers, over 50 post hysterectomy patients.
@JinglingSpringbells ive read the majority of your posts and I can’t keep quiet any more. With respect, you say you don’t wish to argue yet you contradict and appear to be quite confrontational with most of your comments especially directed towards Azaleah. I appreciate that everyone is different and there is a vast diversity of opinions views and perspectives and ways in which we are wired, out there. I don’t fully understand why you do this when Azaleah has contributed so much unbiased information. I have no axe to grind with you personally however I do think we should be trying to lift one another up rather than this. Call me old fashioned It really makes me frightened to comment for fear of being shot down sometimes.

@Lotusflower75 Absolutely, The media hype is certainly not helping matters.

When we talk about HRT we have to take into account special cases like yours, that is, hysterectomy, oophorectomy, premature ovarian failure, PCOS, etc. which are completely different from HRT for 'non-medical' menopause.

@JinglingXmasbells Unfortunately, I have read your post before you have withdrawn it. I will ignore them from now on, you have given me no other option. It's nothing personal, actually, none of this is personal for me. I'm just trying to understand why so many women feel menopause symptoms return when they are supposed to be using exactly the same pharmaceutical product. I bid you farewell.

@Lotusflower75 i 100%agree with what you say about being scared to comment in fear of being shot down. I find i am the same! I feel what i have to say isnt valid in a sense. We should all be free to speak how we feel, that's what this forum should be about. Us women have a tough enough time as it is.
I have said the same on another thread, and felt i had to duck out as i was made to feel a little daft.
Lets stick together and keep lifting and helping one another through this. I would be lost without this chat.
And @Azaleah , please keep doing what you do best. Your info and research has helped me and many others more than you know. Thank you 👏🏼

Can you clarify what you mean by this?

@LastHives Most women will go through menopause around age 50-54 but some women will experience symptoms much earlier due to medical conditions such as Premature Ovarian Insufficiency (POI), Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS), oophorectomy (one or both ovaries removed surgically, called Bilateral Salpingo Oophorectomy - BSO), or even in the case of hysterectomy (uterus removed).

These cases are usually treated with higher doses of estradiol (except for PCOS) because women are younger than the average age at menopause.

Women who are treated for nonmedical menopause should be treated with physiological doses of estradiol, and if a particular regimen does not control symptoms, it is advisable to try different regimens before increasing the dose above physiological levels.

@SamR36 Please, never be afraid to post. We all learn things every day, no one has enough knowledge about menopause, it's still a minefield.

I would like to point out that this also applies to drug manufacturers.

If you register on the emc (electronic medicines compendium) website, you will have access to all changes to the patient information leaflets (PILs) for all medicines sold in the UK.

The PIL of practically all medicines is updated regularly and some have 2 changes in a single month, like our beloved Oestrogel.

The latest one is a change in the active ingredients. Only estradiol was considered an active ingredient until this month (September 2023), when ethanol was added.

This is something I have been questioning for some time, it is impossible to ignore that some women who take 4-8 doses of Oestrogel will not be affected by the amount of ethanol applied daily to the skin (each 1 gram of the gel contains 400 mg of ethanol).

Once you register on the emc website you will be able to see the history of all changes to PILs for all medicines sold in the UK, which I think is a very useful tool, particularly for people who take medicines daily for the rest of their lives, because I think most people don't read the PILs and just trust their GP or pharmacist to tell them if there have been any changes.

Ah Ok thanks. I did have a full hysterectomy but was 60. On HRT gel but back to soaking the bed again these past few months after 7 years.

In fact I never used to soak the bed or nightdress.

@LastHives Sorry to hear that 😕 Do you think you're not getting enough estradiol from the gel or do you have any other medical condition that could be causing them?

I had no issues with the blue and orange square bottles, but with the cylindrical bottle quite a few symptoms came back. I was on 2 and a half pumps a day, but I need four pumps of the cylindrical pump one. I will be doing a yellow card report.

I'm not sure tbh. I have also been on Saxenda for a couple of months now. Thanks for the link to the medicines too - very useful to see that.

This information has just come up on dr Louise Newson's instagram story, it's something she is going to look into.

@buddyb5 thanks - very interesting!

Thanks SO much for this - we are not alone, we are not going mad, and no wonder a lot of us are experiencing a return of our symptoms - the differences in amounts of gel dispensed by the two different bottles is significant!

This also shows the results - the poster weighed the amounts dispensed from the two pumps - I've just watched the reel linked to Dr Louise Newson's instagram.

@nummy2 Thank you for sharing it. Good evidence. I don't have access to the conical bottle where I Iive, but I have my sister's cylindrical bottle so I will ask a friend of mine who has a PhD in Pharmacology and Toxicology to check the consistency of the blobs' weight using an analytical balance.

I switched from oestrogel to lenzetto last week, so far so good. Long may it last.

Amen to that! Fingers crossed!

I have just accessed the MHRA products website and now there are 4 Patient Information Leaflets (PIL) for Oestrogel Product Licence (PL) 28397/002.

The PIL number 5005928 is the latest one. I have already commented on the other 3 in a previous post.

This new PIL is different in some aspects (check the emc website for the changes) but what I would like to point out is that it refers to the CYLINDRICAL BOTTLE because it mentions to 'cover the spout with the attached stopper', which by the way, doesn't usually work!

You can access the current PIL on this link (hope it works, if not just search for Oestrogel on the MHRA products section of their website)

https://mhraproducts4853.blob.core.windows.net/docs/b3ee6b90fc8256ee66a7cce763dd063e99a523ec

This bit.

That little spout thing is very irritating!

And it doesn't always work, which is sort of unacceptable, because if it's there it must have a function, which I think is to prevent air from entering the pump, but if it doesn't work, will it make any difference? Will the air affect its performance and deliver less gel? Will the air affect estradiol molecules by oxidation? Nothing is simple when it comes to small amounts of hormones, despite their enormous effect on our body.