Oestrogel: new packaging (yet again)?

[Cosmetichamster]

Hi ladies,

Just got this month's prescription for Oestrogel, and I have been issued with a bottle that is new (to me at least). Have a look at the photo: left is what I have known and used since June this year, on the right is the new bottle, also from Besins, same labels, same ingredients, and long use by date (07/25). Obtained from a reputable pharmacy, which has filled all my previous HRT prescriptions.

Has anyone seen this sort of thing? Slightly freaked out here.

Hi @Helswatts
Im tired of it all now, im seriously considering going cold turkey😂
At least i'll know where i am.
Im currently using flagon orange square 🤞🏼still not 100% but a tad better. Im sick of all the ups & downs. Don't know what to do for the best xx
Hope you feel better soon.
What bottle you on now?

Hi, gone back on the orange square bottle assume flagon 🤣. I’ve also been crying at my Netflix series, it all makes sense now it’s the cylinder bottle, I’m in a rage within 60 secs, hopefully I’ll be back to normal in a couple of weeks. Have they given you testosterone? That really helped with my mood, motivation, tiredness oh and libido.x

@Lotusflower75

Did you send the actual bottles of gel back to them for analysis? You say you have kept both bottles, so presumably they were not testing those, but their own bottles with the same batch number?

The estrogen content is within a certain range The review of the analytical results of Oestrogel batches 73936 & 73967 show that the Estradiol content was compliant at the time of release as the Estradiol content (specifications: 57.0 to 63.0 mg/100g of gel) was

batch 73936 => 62.7 mg/100g of gel
batch 73967 => 58.8 mg/100g of gel

The amount of variance in the batches (above) is minute and within the usual variation. Using gel I feel it's impossible to apply and absorb exactly the same amount each time because some is always lost on our hands and with how we vary the 'spreading' action. I know because I alternate between applying to inner thighs and upper arms. I can get a thinner application on my thighs because there's more of them compared to my arms. I assume this affects the absorption very slightly because area of application does affect absorption.

If you think one batch is 'weaker' can't you increase the amount you're using?

Why would they save bottles from each batch to test? Surely that would mean a huge storage facility?

no I didn’t send them back as they didn’t ask go to them/there was no address given to.

yes I’ve tried upping my dose. I’ve been on oestrogel since 2017 so I’m an old hand at applying it😜
And yes I upped my dose with the dodgy batch and felt awful.

I also think gel lost on hands (minutely) is going to be catered for meaning surely they’d allow for that?

I think the point here is if there are changes in oestrogel, however tiny, that are affecting women and we can see from this thread that is the case, then it should be reported and something done about it. Or am I just old fashioned? 🤣

i am going to speak to my menopause nurse about it and I think if it carries on will give another product a go.
Hope nobody is suffering too much and best of luck.

Why would they save bottles from each batch to test? Surely that would mean a huge storage facility?

The gel has a shelf life of 3 years. They will presumably have the same batch in stock.

They may even keep samples of various batches for the purpose of analysis.

Would you consider swapping to Sandrena or Lenzetto?

I have to be honest and say I've never noticed any difference with all the packaging changes over 15 years, when the shape of the bottles has changed and also when the European version Oestrodose was used during shortages. I accept that maybe that's just 'me' so I don't want to disbelieve anyone.

@Lotusflower75 thanks for posting this. At least we know we are not going loopy!
Tbh I am so sick of all the changes and now shortages with Utrogestan that I am thinking of coming off HRT completely and trying a herbal solution for a few weeks/months. My main issue is palpitations so I am hoping they don't come back. Its shocking that us women have to fight to get medicine we need, and complain to manufacturers as their products are faulty. Outrageous. Good luck with your Meno journey. Hope you start to feel better.

Hi @Lotusflower75 and thanks for letting us know the contents of their reply to you.

I will do some more investigation and post it on here but before anything I would like to advise you to edit or delete your post because the letter (all of them) says it's confidential information.

You and many others have been suffering enough and you don't need a pharma company taking legal action against you on top of it all.

My first impression is that they are looking at the issue a bit more seriously so that's a start.

The 'acceptable' difference in the amount of estradiol is consistent with my previous investigation regarding the difficulty of keeping estradiol molecules stable in small quantities.

If we add to that difference the fact that the bottles and pumps come from different manufacturers, the actual difference in amount of estradiol can increase, which would explain the fluctuations in symptoms.

IMHO, the best response to Besins would be to ditch their products and give others a chance (Sandrena, Lenzetto, etc). If this was a massive public campaign they would lose big money and that's what pharma companies understand.

Hi Azaleah
thanks for the advice. Yes I don’t want that. Naively thought it would be ok. I’m not finding a way to edit or remove my post so that’s not great. Any ideas?

@Lotusflower75 it looks like it worked fine. Let's keep discussing the subject. They can't do anything about that. If anyone wants more details we can post bits and pieces of the information.

@Helswatts yes im taking testosterone, i actually bought mine online as gp wasn't licenced to prescribe it. Ive been taking a pea sized amount everyday for 11 weeks, feel slightly better but noticed a dip these last few weeks. But its probably because estrogen isnt working as it should so testosteron converts to estrogen so ive been told xx

Hi I’m also on oestrogel and have been struggling since new bottles. Because I’ve had a mix of bottles so I’ve used a new shape then an old shape it’s been a tough one to work out. However, I spoke to my private clinic yesterday and they have advised that the new bottles people are getting their symptoms back which is ecactly what’s happened with me. Brain fog, painful joints , terrible moods etc. I’m on 6 pumps so this has really affected me. So read the article on it https://lizearlewellbeing.com/healthy-living/oestrodose-oestrogel-what-you-need-to-know/

not completely clear but helpful on what to do. Iv3 just emailed and reported it to besins and yellow carded it too. We need to speak up to raise awareness. X

Thank you @Birdwithaview73 interesting read.
When you say your symptoms came back was it the Oestrodose or the Oestrogel in the new cylindrical bottles.
All this swapping & changing is setting me off too. I found the cylindrical bottle ineffective

@Birdwithaview73 its frustrating isn’t it? Did your private clinic mention if they were going to report this through whatever channels they operate in?
Im dreading having to go and ask chemists to check the bottle /coloured flag for my next prescription.

Hi yes my clinic have already highlighted and reported it as have I. I have to collect my medication in a mo and waiting for the new ones which I will be refusing. Let’s see how I get on!

I had issues several months ago (having been stable in 4 pumps with no symptoms for years )with two of the regular bottles, and reported on yellow card. They investigated and sent me the report. Didn't ask for the bottles. As soon as I started a different bottle I was fine again. Could be coincidence, something else or nocebo but I have been aware of this thread for ages and never doubted the product before.

I've started on a new bottle this week. It's the 'old' style bottle shape with an orange square. So far so good.

I've just started a new thread as I'm having bleeding issues having missed a day of my Oestrogel, and I wish I'd seen this thread first! I've been concerned that some of my symptoms are returning (brain fog and aching muscles). I started off on the cylindrical bottles last year, went onto the conical ones and the latest prescription are cylindrical.

Like previous posters, I also have worked in the Pharma industry in R&D/manufacturing. They are absolutely correct in that there will be stringent testing of the gel and the components (and yes they do retain a large number of bottles for retest during the shelf life, and yes it takes up a lot of room!). The gel content and the dose for each pump should be exactly the same regardless of the factory it is manufactured in, and the shape of the bottle. They will have had to generate data to show it is the same and get it approved before the new factories/packaging can be used.

However, however. There have been situations in the past for medicines where a change has been made, perhaps to an ingredient supplied by another party, or to a packaging component, that no-one had considered would make any difference to the final product, and that could not be predicted based on all the information gathered during the R&D phase of the product. Add in that some people can be more sensitive to changes than others and then suddenly you're in a situation where patients are reporting issues with a medicine.

For that reason, I would encourage anyone who feels their medicine is not working as well as it used to to the yellow card scheme at https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk and to tell the manufacturer (their phone number and contact details are on the leaflet inside the box). The manufacturer will have to investigate each report and account for any spikes in product complaints.

I found my symptoms returned on the cylindrical bottle. Ive used green /orange square flagon bottles, always been fine. The Oestrodose i had to up a pump, the cylindrical knocked me sideways.
Ive always reported Yellow card.

Ive been having problems with the oestrogel but the opposite to most people on here. I had the cylindrical bottle first and it was great, then the flagon style bottle and still fine.
Last week I started another new bottle (flagon style with orange square) and all symptoms returned. Do you think it’s a doseage thing? Can you get used to the level of oestrogen and need to increase?

I have to say having got fed up with the gel I have moved to lenzetto and it's great - no need to get gel on your hands and it dries in a fraction of the time. Not quite as flexible for dosage as one spray of lenzetto equals two estrogel - I'd gone up to 3 because the gel didn't seem to be working as well, but one spray of lenzetto seems to do the trick. Oh and you should avoid putting it on skin that is or will be suncreamed. But generally recommended.

@Candleabra i think a few have said they have found that the flagon orange square isnt as effective as it was before.
Im currently using it. Only a few days in, mine change every month, different shaped bottles or oestrodose, its a constant up & down feeling.
Very odd. I may see if i can get the spray next just for some continuity

Hi unfortunately they won’t open the box, if you know the batch numbers you can request them.

I’m so pleased I found this thread. Started on the new shape bottle a couple of weeks ago and my symptoms have returned along with spotting. Straight away I didn’t think it was pumping out so much. I will report and go back to my pharmacist.

@funnelfan would you happen to know why Besins would label their bottles with different colour flags? Is it a location thing? As in different manufacturing plant maybe? I understand that they say it’s identical format in whatever shaped bottle but don’t understand why the change in the flag/square colour 🤔