Just started Oestrogel and horrible insomnia - is this normal?

[abdnhiker]

I’ve just started Oestrogel (2 pumps a day) as I’ve obvious signs I’m peri menopausal and have night sweats, issues with recurrent thrush, and body ache but I’m having horrible side effects. 12 hours after the first dose I became overly emotional, really weepy and fragile-feeling, like PMS but way worse. Then last night I had the worst insomnia of my life - I wasn’t anxious or upset but it was like trying to sleep at 9:30 am after a good night sleep. I was wide awake for six hours and none of my normal manage insomnia tricks (get up, try a different bed, read for a bit and try again etc) worked. I’ve had to take the day off work today as I feel pretty hollow from lack of sleep and emotional rollercoaster.

Has this happened to anyone else? Is it a temporary side effect? Should I ditch the HRT or should I lower the dose and try to persevere?

Sorry to hear that! I haven't had that issue, but from reading on here and speaking to people it does seem so individual! One thing I have done is change from sandrena gel to oestrogel- I got the it accidentally once when the pharmacy had no sandrena left, and actually it felt so much better that I've changed to it permanently. So maybe if you continue to have issues you could try a swap?

Thank you - at the moment I’m so much worse off with the HRT than I was before that I’m guessing I need to stop it entirely but once I get back to normal I could see that trying a different version of the gel (and maybe a lower dose?) might help. Work is really busy so I feel like I can’t experiment too much if it’s going to mean the lack of sleep but alternatively I don’t want to give up if this is likely to just settle down and go away.

It does settle down. Worth taking to your doctor if your concerned it they will probably tell you to stick with it.

Do you progesterone to take every 2 weeks as well as gel? For progesterone days I take it at night and get better sleep those nights.

Also I was started on only 1 pump a day and only when I felt ready which was about 2-3 months on went up to 2 pumps.

It could be better to ease into it.

Do you not have utrogestan as well? (If you’ve got your own womb you should have some form of progesterone either via mini pill and utrogestan and / or coil). The reason I’m asking is because for most women taking the utrogestan part at night helps with sleep (I am on 3 pumps of oestrogel, the mini pill and 100mg utrogestan every night).

Thank you! Yes, I will take the progesterone (utrogestan 2x100mg capsule which sounds twice as high as you afterfire unless it’s in the mini pill as well?) but only in the second half of my cycle (which isn’t now, and I can’t not sleep for a fortnight every month). I’ll speak with the Dr but I’m pretty destroyed today and I don’t think I could just power through and take more of the gel tonight as scheduled. I will ask re half dose though, it’s good to hear that easing into it worked for you shortpoet. Did you have a lower dose of progesterone while you were on a lower dose of Oestrogel or is it not linked?

(huge sympathy to anyone who does have proper insomnia, I’ve only ever had anxiety related insomnia before this and known why I couldn’t sleep. This was worse in that I had no reason for it).

You need to give it time, it can take weeks or months to feel the benefit. I really doubt it would have had such a profound effect after 12hrs, perhaps there was a psychological reaction. People expect something to happen immediately so maybe bring things on themselves. A bit like if someone is apprehensive about an event or something they can be awake all night and have nausea and headaches.

Just try 1 pump for a couple of weeks (you don't need fo ask your Dr about this) or 1 pump am and 1 pump pm, try some calming apps, lots of physical activity to help with sleep and carry on going to work. Having a day off sick won't help your mental wellbeing. Good luck.

Liila, I’m confident it is not a psychological reaction - it was not anxiety related insomnia or anything similar (which I have had on occasion when stressed or anxious about the next day), it felt very different. I also walked during the day and had Pilates straight after work - it really was an odd physical reaction.

My Dr has suggested I stop HRT for a couple weeks, get back to where I was and confirm it was likely the HRT and then try again with a half dose which seems very sensible and sort of agrees with your suggestion (albeit a break just to check it is the HRT and not something else that just started at the same time). My perimenopausal symptoms are (thankfully) not sleep or head related, it’s entirely the night sweats and joint ache, and I’d rather cope with those than add insomnia to the mix.

Progesterone you either take 2 x 100mg every night for a fortnight, then fortnight break if your periods haven’t stopped.
or you take 1 x 100 every day if your periods have stopped.

Hello, I just wanted to add that I'm 3 weeks into HRT and have had similar symptoms to you - insomnia, as well as intense feelings of agitation/wired/jittery - so you're not imagining it or being over-anxious. I felt especially bizarre on the days I'd start a new patch, to the point it was so uncomfortable that I'm now two days into trying gel instead. Even on just a half pump of the gel, I feel a horrible rush of adrenaline/agitation after a few hours. I think some of us are just much more sensitive to oestrogen than others, or maybe we absorb it in a different way. I am trying to decide whether it's worth persevering or whether my body just doesn't like this.

I have anxiety related insomnia. Sertraline as little as 25mg/50mg knocks that on the head! It seems to stop that adrenaline rush/panic that makes things worse and I can just use CBT type methods to calm myself if needed.

I also tell myself I’m a bit ‘rock and roll’ for being up too late. In my youth I used to go to bed really late through choice and in my mind that made me cool and nothing bad ever happened the next day.

I didn’t have a problem with starting oestrogen gel or patches. I have had problem in the past with B13 and Coenzyme Q10, have you changed anything else recently?

Sorry this has been an issue for you insomnia is a PITA.

I literally just started a post about this! I'm on Oestrogel and I'm a MESS emotionally. Tearful, angry, bitchy, weepy, suspicious, grumpy...

I have to have HRT as I had a full hysterectomy and my hair started to fall out, plus I got the worst brain fog. But I'm all over the place on Oestrogel! Like awful PMT.

I think it takes time to settle down. I sometimes have a half pump more if I'm feeling a bit fragile.

Sitting here at 3am having started HRT just before Christmas and have had terrible problems falling asleep. I’m glad to find your post as it’s a comfort to know I’m not the only one wondering about this connection. Has it settled down for you since September? I hope so.

I’m on 2 pumps daily and 2 x 100mg Utrogestan tabs in the eves for 2 weeks alternating. So pretty standard dosage. The doc said Utrogestan could make me drowsy and I was so looking forward to this as have always been a night owl. But I haven’t slept properly since I got started whether with or without the Utrogestan.

I put the Oestrogel on before bed. I’m wondering if this is the reason. Has anyone noticed any difference when applying at a different time of day?

I put in on in the morning just because that's when I shower. My sleep has actually improved but I think that's because it has impacted positively on the hot flushes.

Thank you TooOldForThis, I really appreciate you responding. I decided to leave the gel off last night and had no trouble falling asleep, and slept well. 😴 I put the gel on this morning instead.

Sleep deprivation aside, I’m glad I conducted this accidental night-time experiment because now I know I am experiencing benefits to energy levels. Very happy to now transfer them to the daytime hours! 😅 xx

Oh that's good! I haven't really felt more energetic, but definitely calmer. I hope it continues to work out for you!

just saw there’s more recent messages! I’ve not been brave enough to restart HRT, although I did try ashwagandha supplements which were brilliant for a week or so and then I ended up anxious and insomniac again.

did changing the time of day sort out the insomnia for you @MrsD00? And @Glasgow51 did it settle down for you and are you sleeping better now?

It’s feeling like I might, for the next wee while at least, just need to put up with the perimenopause symptoms and try again in a year or more (when undoubtedly my hormones will be in a different place once again).

It was actually the Oestrogel that caused my insomnia! I didn’t have that as a symptom previously. I was applying it before bed. But since I switched to applying it in the mornings I have slept very well. I have also noticed the Progesterone tabs make me sleepy so am dropping off easily. I’ve always been a night owl so I’m enjoying the slight sedative effect. Might be worth going back on it to experience this benefit? Good luck!

Thanks@MrsD00, it’s good to hear that using it only in the morning worked out for you. It gives me a bit of hope that if my symptoms get worse I could try again and maybe it’ll settle and be okay. (I was using it in mornings but was also having anxious feelings throughout the day which just doesn’t work with my relatively stressful job). And I wasn’t on the constant progesterone, maybe that would counterbalance the Oestrogel a bit. At the moment though I’m far too intimidated to try again, my symptoms themselves are much more manageable than insomnia!

Apply the gel in the morning as it's a sort of stimulate for me as in it wakes you up a bit. Take the tablet in the evening. Persevere for a bit x

Can I ask people where they physically apply it? I've been doing bum/thighs is this correct?

Inside of thighs and tops of arms. I rub it in with the lid so I don't get it on my hands and have to wash it off. I wipe any residue over my tummy. It says no where near breasts or vulva

I have to say that it sounds like it works differently for different people. If I had persevered with the way my hormones are now I’d end up needing serious mental health care (which probably just means it’s not the right thing for me, not that it won’t work for other people). I’m not ruling it out for the future, maybe when I’m actually menopausal instead of just peri-menopausal, as obviously my hormones are all over the place and changing all the time.

it has been so helpful to hear that others have found similar side effects though as my GP said she’d not heard of anyone who’d had the insomnia and anxiety.

I had the same problem @abdnhiker . I came off it because I was an emotional wreck and I couldn't sleep. I'm on patches now and I'm fine. Don't give up on HRT altogether. You might need to try a few different things before you find what works for you.